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Post by snoopy on Mar 12, 2011 9:45:16 GMT -5
Just a reminder to those who can't attend game. The following links: radio play-by-play www.ckdo.ca Also live Video with the radio play-by-play if the gremlins get worked out. www.justin.tv/golivenowTom
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Post by munzie on Mar 13, 2011 1:32:00 GMT -5
Sometimes Pointstreak tells you all that went on in a given game. Sometimes it's no indication at all. And sometimes it tells you part of what took place and nothing about the other part. Such was the case Saturday night in game 3 of Norwood vs Whitby. Pointstreak would suggest a fairly tame affair with sixteen minor penalties handed out. Nothing could be further from the reality. This was a rough tough and spirited affair by two teams that obviously have a love? for each other. Truth is there could have easily been three or more times that called. Instead, the guys on both sides were allowed to settle matters between themselves, as in they battled heatedly to the end. I hesitate to use the term old time hockey, for fear that some power to be will declare that such a likeness must not be allowed to occur. Both teams had ample reasons why they needed a win, and at the same time I would suggest they realized that out of control anarchy could easily lead to playing further games in this series with less than a full roaster. Any fan who was not entertained in this game , should check to see if they have a pulse.
Now for what pointstreak does show clearly. The visiting team had a six straight minute man advantage in the first period, but were not able to produce more than maybe one or two good scoring chances. The same shortcoming surfaced on subsequent Norwood man advantage situations, resulting in a 0 for 11 in power play goals.
Given that the final Whitby goal was into a Norwood empty net, this contest was a very close affair and could have been won by either side. Whitby was 2 for 5 and Norwood 0 for 11, and in the end Whitby won 4 goals to 2. The 'battle' continues Sunday evening back in Norwood.
In the meantime, I've got to get to bed. They're stealing an hour of my sleep tonight, and game 5 five of Dundas vs Brantford starts at 2:00 p.m. this after noon. Should be another good one!
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Post by family on Mar 13, 2011 16:16:09 GMT -5
We are a go for Live streaming the Whitby Dunlops Vs Norwood Vipers game tonight in Norwood. (hopefully the cybergremlins will stay away... Half the fun of watching a live streaming MLH Senior AAA game is the chat that goes on while the game is being played. It was great to have you there Tom, in cyberspace, chatting and watching the game with the other 100 or more folks watching! Here is the website: www.justin.tv/golivenowor you can go to www.whitbydunlops.cpm and follow the links via DunniesTV. We are hoping to break the record for the number of viewers watching tonight.....hope to see you there!
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Post by Curtis on Mar 14, 2011 8:31:57 GMT -5
hey munzie, absolutley correct again!! But how are you supposed to counter what was let go on saturday and then (if anybody was there..oh yea it was a full house in Norwood) have the gong show affair for the next night? Went to a hockey game and a ref broke out. No doubt Norwood earned any of those penalties, no doubt...but for it to be so obviously lop sided when it was happening both ways was the frustrating part.
It was blantantly obvious what was going on. Not only did both teams lose some players...they also lost some cash to boot if they need those players back!!
I dont understand how teams can be assessed abuse of officials but the official can come right to your bench and tell a player to Quote " quit acting like a baby...grow up" unquote! and have no consequences. How is a player or anybody in ear shot ,supposed to take that official serious. We all talk respect day in and day out, but hockey has a long record of abuse and by no means giving an official "judge and jury" making desicions in the ice, especially at this level, is mind boggling.
Fine, one night the ref lets you play hockey. Guys are cut in the face, slash marks in your guts and when you question it he says" your both doing it" , hey fine! The next night same type of game, and when you question it he says "grow up, shut up and misconduct, out of the game.
A referee cannot take anything personal, if he does he is in the wrong game/business/world!! I have no problems with them telling a bench to shut up, but dont penalize the whole game for a couple comments in return.
I guess the reason we have a small ref pool is because College and University pay $200.00 for a ref and the good level 4/5s are taking all those assignments. Who can blame them. I think the owner operators would pay $200 to get those guys, especially for playoffs, and/or pay for a second ref. The second ref would keep both honest.
Anyway, its a 2 out of 3 and whether some people dont think norwood deserves to move on...so be it. I guess the boys will have to fight through all that crap. It was a good team rival playoff series up to last night...now its tarnished.
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Post by snoopy on Mar 14, 2011 15:01:11 GMT -5
Gentlemen.. I expect that I will be fined from the OHA for my open comments but someone associated with the game needs to finally say something drastic and it needs to be heard. First the score was 9-4. Refereeing DID NOT effect the outcome of this game. Look Whitby scored 3 shorties ( yes one was extra late in the 3rd) plus 4 powerplay goals to Norwood 3. Equal Strength the game was 2-1. The 3 shorties is the game and the momentum. And let's be honest Ash was not Ash Sunday night. Like Curtis says its now best of 3. Now to refs. Mr. Brown has said to coaches previously that he hates doing SR. games although he is one of the best of the Oshawa group. Lets be honest the Norwood-Whitby rivalry is intense and a handful to officiate. However, in the Tundras first game in Whitby.. Mr., Brown's squad was unaware that we adopted the NHL rules re:faceoffs and no change for offending icing team. In the last game Blast vs McCoys... Ken Crabb tells Burchell at the end of the game that Mr. Burchell is a fag. Guess what Crabby gets a GRM 63.. that means a 7 game suspension for something we all called school yard kids. In a game in Norwood, a defenceman on the Tundras gets a match penalty for threatening the official. He tells the ref at the end of the game he should keep his head up or he might wind up with a puck in the mouth. 7 GAMES!!!! In the game they lose a linesman to cuts in the face due to a highstick and the ref is telling both benches the F word all game. Yes a stressful game to do with only 2 guys. But a DOUBLE STANDARD. The Orillia Tundras did not make the playoffs this season. In 7 big games we did not have a defenceman that we nominated to be an All STAR. His contribution in the 10 games he played was so great ..he MIGHT have been the different in the 7 we missed him. A head check and a check in the back should not be taken lightly in this day, especially what we know today about concussions and ultimate brain damage as what happened with Tuff guy Probert. BUt STUPID Gross Misconduct and Match penalties that should be called as a simple M21 or GM21 prove to me that the officials think they are BIGGER than the game. In one occassion in Orillia, we had an official OFF a game to another referee who had never done a SR game without talking the the OHA assignor or the AREA evaluator. You know what happened ..The TUNDRAS got the excess mileage charge back. NOT even an apology. I could go on..I love this game but when our passion and excitement for the game is not shared by some who adjudicate the game and decide THEY ARE THE REASON FANS ARE THERE our game suffers. It may not effect the final score but it does effect the impression left with our paying fans. Until all involved in Senior hockey give a care..this game will not flourish and recapture the glory years.
Tom
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Post by wade on Mar 14, 2011 16:44:15 GMT -5
Its not for me to interject much of an opinion on. I don't believe its possible to have perspective without having eye witnessed anything.
However....when I look at the terminologies used for the wide array of penalties and suspensions being recorded onto the boxscores for these games....I find myself wondering...'How on earth is anyone expected to remember all these extra rules....let alone abide by them.
If you want the players to respect the way the games get called...one of the first things you have to do is to equip the refs with the proper tool(s) for the job.
The one basic thing every ref has to use is his rulebook and if its cumbersome, constantly altered, complicated in its wording....you are just sending the refs into a potential mess each time they go on the ice.
So, you really have to ask yourself....Is it worth that much to you to change the icing rule into the NHL style?
I just think its maybe a prime example of...TOO MUCH WHITE NOISE...
Bottom line: Governing bodies, refs and everyone else need to just let the players play. Get back to basics....enforce the basics and stop fiddling with the rule book.
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Post by Curtis on Mar 15, 2011 10:00:58 GMT -5
I carry all the necessary paperwork , suspension form, rules and regs, new rules, etc, with me Wade just so our coaches are in the know. I dont think the players know how much is involved for coaches to keep a level head. Sure, we preach disipline, but in every human there is a breaking point! We dont have to sell hockey here like they are trying so valiantly in the south. so why keep changing rules, changing boundaries? There are some changes that need to be look at as the game evolves, i.e newer equipment, positioning of the lines on the ice, etc, but the game of hockey does not need to be re-invented! call it what you want, game of tomorrow, tomorrows game?? its hockey plain and simple. 12 guys on the ice, sticks in hand, fully equipped one goal in mind...score one more goal than the other team ANY WAY YOU CAN..done!
Hockey has always been a rough an dirty sport. The NHL cannot get a handle on the personality clashes that happen daily. I agree with getting rid of the head shots, but everyone knows that each player ( 90% of the time) bring most matters on themselves either with a dirty stick, dirty mouth, or just plain dirty...at any level of hockey!!
The problem with the senior league is the major penalization for fighting. there is no chance for 2 guys to square off, sit for 5 and get back in the game in some capacity. Now , in the last 10 minutes its even more games added on. 2nd fight in the same game, ok see you later, but leave that up to the players. Your not going to have too many guys fighting twice in a game, it just wears you out!
Has the "game of Tomorrow" already changed the way a player protects himself and thats why there are more head injuries today? Just a question. Some arguments are its the new equipment, or that some are head hunting, or just a lack of respect all around. Could be all three but the only way you will remove any of these major head and body injuries will be to remove body contact and who in their right mind would go and watch or pay to watch any of the 82 games an NHL team plays with an all star game style play...not many.
The Vipers have to win in Whitby and it has to be tomorrow night...period. Whitby pounces on the oppositions misfortunes and usually with a payoff. Ash will be back tomorrow snoop-dog and he is mad, no worries!!
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Post by munzie on Mar 15, 2011 14:18:27 GMT -5
Good Day "boys and girls". (Oops, that could maybe get me 7 games.) I'm not taking sides. If I have leaning I will keep it to myself. Both teams are very good. Whitby finished in first place and would have to be the favorite going in to the series. Norwood finished further down but has beaten Whitby during the regular season. Additionally Norwood has defeated Whitby twice so far in this semi final series with talent, with grit, and with determination, so any thinking that Norwood can't prevail would not be at all valid. To curtis....seeing as that it's your post I'm responding to, I'll make the following comment. You have said what's really important in your last paragraph. Although your coach Pasavad expressed unhappiness following Sunday's game, he was savvy enough to almost immediately set the tone for the priority going forward. A series only lasts so long, so good luck to you and your team. Then of course there is me the fan. I have the luxury to spend some time on other things. IMO, to date in both semi-final series, I have observed a more accommodating attitude from the referee officials. It has appeared to be an expression that, O K. boys it's the playoffs between four very good teams. We are going to let you play, and do your best to win. We'll call what we think we need to call but so long as we don't think things are getting out of control that serves no purpose, then we are going to allow some things that in the regular season we would call for sure. I would say that the result has been that the games have been fast and spirited, and that the players have generally responded by keeping focused on the task at hand. Even in game 3 in Whitby where things were allowed to go about as far as one could expect or even a little further, both teams demonstrated enough good sense as to not sustain a bunch of suspensions by creating some unnecessary scene. The one exception to of all of the games that I have watched, would be Sunday night in Norwood. It was a steady stream starting at a minute thirty six, and it never ended. As someone else has said, it became as big as the show itself, and I ask...for what good reason?....and surprise, surprise, frustration set in. I preface these remarks by admitting that I was only viewing this game via video. I almost drove to Norwood following the afternoon game in Brantford, but I new there might be pretty full house and I didn't want to risk that one of the loyal ladies would kick me out of my seat because it belonged to Mrs. Stewart Anyway my point is that the video is greatly appreciated but it's not clear enough to see everything. Still it was good enough for me to suggest that the game was over officiated and without sufficient reason. Last point..... I respectfully disagree on the no change on icing comment. I think it's a fine rule addition which the linesmen have adopted to quite well. It makes a team pay for the easy bail out icing just because they are tired or under pressure. It makes a team pay a penalty for staying out on the ice too long, It encourages changing on the fly as a strategy and keeps the game fresh and moving. If anything it's the benches that are requiring the learning curve. The ref's have been strict on the rule, but tolerant to date on allowing the benches to return their proper players to the ice when they have fail to comply. Once sufficient time has passed, if benches don't comply or attempt to cheat on a frequent basis, I'm sure the officials can issue a polite warning that without challange they may asses a delay of game, and rightly so. The action resumes on Wednesday night. Good luck to all teams.
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Post by wade on Mar 15, 2011 15:23:53 GMT -5
I won't derail the entire thread to argue the icing rule. I do, however, need to try and have the last word. (Its a personality flaw, mibad) The NHL brought this rule in a few years back. Not as a specific change but one of many 'little tweaks' which they trumpeted as part of their way to innovate more goal scoring. (which as someone already noted, was what they thought they needed to do in order to sell the game to southerners). I believe the real brass tax truth of the matter is this particular rule only OCCASIONALLY accomplishes what were told its intended to do. Now...teams are cutting shifts down to 20-30 seconds seconds because they know they may only get one chance to change on the fly/without penalization. Its especially evident in the 2nd period(s) when the long change applies....were seeing the game get twisted into a constant relay race back and forth to the bench. I think way too much of the emphasis is now on line changing on the fly...which really...doesn't make the game much more exciting. Sure...you get a few less stoppages...but the trade off is a lot less controlled play and a lot more of just getting it across centre, dump it down and change. Hardly worth it all in the grand balance of cause and effect. Another negative ripple effect which you may or may not notice is...when players are forced to remain on the ice well past the point their legs or their minds can sustain them....they are (IMO) putting themselves at an elevated risk to injury. Too tired to take a forceful stride, let alone make or take a decent check...It gets to be like the tail end of the fox hunt. Its great when we get to see a kill....but...not as nice to sit and watch while the poor animal gets only half mauled to death...trying to block shots/make plays with legs of rubber and lungs of saw dust. Like I said before...just leave the rulebook alone. Let the guys ice the puck at their own discretion. Keep rested players going head to head and its all good. Bottom line...sure there is some merit to the rule itself. But each change you make has a cause and effect and the more rules implimented...the less control the players have. Just look at the NHL right now...scrambling to identify how so many guys are getting knocked unconscious. There are 2 reasons, as far as I am concerned: 1) The game now moves too fast for a players mind to keep up to his feet. 2) Too many games and too much travel. The players are getting worn ragged. Crosby got hurt at the tail end of a run of games where he was carrying an already depleted roster...trying to juggle it all while being the 'poster boy' for the league during a stupid novelty event which (once again) was targeting the ever elusive US demographic. They ran him right into the ice as far as I am concerned. Sorry for the meandering. lol.
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Post by munzie on Mar 15, 2011 16:42:04 GMT -5
Personality flaw accepted! Nothing like a man who knows his shortcomings and has plans to improve The NHL... I haven't paid too much attention for quite some time. I suppose it's somehow relevant, but for a whole variety of reasons I'd rather just go watch a Senior game any day, so that is what I do. Perhaps I've helped you make your point, but I'll leave that for you. On the no change icing rule in our Ontario MLH, I still like it for now. I could take your well thought points and argue them for the positive or the negative. So for now, I'll just keep observing the on ice action with an open mind. At present I like it, but if it had never been put in place or if it were to be removed in the future, either way would be O.K. I'm not against the odd change over time though. For example taking out the center line to allow the two line pass, has not been such a bad thing. Neither has eliminating the touch icing been such a bad thing. I know you will at least agree with that one, being the self proclaimed Don Cherry of Senior Hockey and all. ? has the no change icing rule been adapted out west or is it so far just in Ontario.
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Post by Curtis on Mar 15, 2011 17:38:00 GMT -5
The discussion Ive had about the concussions is somewhat like wades speaks...the game is so fast now and the mind set has to change..not the game. They lengthened the end zones, shortend the mid-zone up and really it makes the red line obsolete!
Take the red line out completely if it is of no value. Teams can ice the puck outside their own blueline and would be "penalized" if its shot down from inside their own zone. At one time if you had players with speed, that was a trick you used and it wasnt for icing, it was to gain 180 ft(old time rinks) of ice and have your speedy players beat the defence to the puck. Now of course defncemen's sticks seem to shrink to a couple feet long when the puck is shot anywhere near them because of the icing call.
They wanted this game faster and have been working at it now for quite a while. Remember back when the "obstruction" rule came into effect? Obstruction hooking..Obstruction tripping...give me a break...EVERY PENALTY IS AN OBSTRUCTION TO THE GAME!!!
I think its 15 years of teaching players the new game, rules whatever and they cant handle the speed to go along with it.
Most head injuries, other than the latest one of course, happens in open ice. If a guy turns along the boards and gets creamed..its kinda understandable, not accpeptable, but understandable. Its when they have their head down cutting through the middle and get pasted, i dont understand that. For years teachers of hockey have been preaching "keep your head up...keep your head up...at practice and game. So do it!!
Whitby....game 5...wednesday night...7:30 pm game time...Let the dance begin.
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Post by wade on Mar 15, 2011 18:21:12 GMT -5
munzie, I have heard no such talk of the icing rule being changed out here. I don't hate the rule itself as much as I hate the continuing movement to re-invent the wheel by people who lack the things needed to make effective changes. Especially in the NHL...it gets introduced as 'experimental' and always seems to stick around and nobody ever seems to full understand if its working or not. They need better leadership in that league and I don't follow it nearly as close as I used to to. Were on the same page, just different paragraphs, you and I. Alberta does a good job of moving slowly on these changes. We get called traditionalists but I think 'common sensalists' is a better description. The notorious 'no fighting rule' was forced upon the Chinook League. We held on until the bitter end. Hockey Canada tends to now run parallel with IIHF on such things. Together... they are perpendicular to common sense. Guess where that leaves us?
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Post by munzie on Mar 17, 2011 0:07:01 GMT -5
Game #5 Norwood 3 @ Whitby 2 Norwood leads series 3-2
Another very good close game to watch. Once again either team could have won, but having said that, Norwood never trailed and were full value for their money.
Norwood appeared to be very well prepared, and totally regrouped from their game 4 loss. They moved effectively out of their own end and they applied sufficient pressure in all zones as to maintain control, and keep the opposition from free wheeling. In the closing couple of minutes Ryan Aschaber made a top notch quality leg save to keep the foe at bay. Had that one got passed him, it could have been a bit of a heart breaker forcing overtime and then who knows what.
Again pointstreak could be interpreted to indicate a fairly placid affair. However the officiating once again returned to a more liberal approach worthy of playoff hockey. There was plenty of spirit and solid hits. Both sides demonstrated that when allowed to play, they would do just that, while at the same time showing restraint and keeping tempers in check.
This is still any ones series.
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Post by Curtis on Mar 17, 2011 10:00:51 GMT -5
It was a evenly paced game. We had our best 1st period in a long time. The first goal was big. We have had to come from behind over and over. Sometimes that builds character, and sometimes you never get a chance to get back into the game. Whitby's defence seemed a little sluggish and that seemed to be the difference IMO.
The ice, and this is for both sides, was slow as hell. It never dried up until 10 minutes in then it snowed up real bad. Maybe thats why the players were so tempermental with the puck.
As long as stewy keeps blocking shots and Ash stands tall, we'll be alright.
The boys got a taste, so it should be a great game Friday.
If it's not already, it will be a sold out affair.
Nice to meet you Munzie.
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Post by calhoon on Mar 20, 2011 9:35:30 GMT -5
Mrs Stewart would gladly give up her seat to any affable fan!
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