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Post by dontcallitsenior on Jul 25, 2019 11:48:57 GMT -5
I say start by ditching the 'Sr' in Sr AAA. Call it 'Men's AAA' or whatever.
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Post by southoftheborder on Jul 25, 2019 16:14:09 GMT -5
There are two things that have been killing Senior AAA hockey for years (about 70 years or so), the advent of the NHL on television and Senior AA/A hockey.
In the pre-television era all you had was radio broadcasts of games. The senior AAA games were live entertainment, they were that towns' Toronto Maple Leafs or Montreal Canadiens. Foster Hewitt was the main way that most people got their exposure to the NHL.
Teams that haven't been in committed Senior AAA league have had their players playing on Senior AA/A team to get to play the game. The Kelowna Sparta are a good example of this from a few seasons ago. They had to back out of playing in the BC/Alberta qualifier because many of their players were tied up with the Coy Cup (the BC AA championship tournament) on the same weekend that the Allan Cup qualifier was being held, and the dates for the Coy Cup were announced well in advance.
It seems like the same things keep getting done over and over again with teams popping up and dying after a few (if even that many) seasons.
It is time to start thinking outside of the box (or even rely on what worked in the past). Universities and junior teams would seemingly have enough alumnus that a team could potentially be put together. How about allowing the military bases being allowed to form teams and try to qualify for the Allan Cup. Remember, Milt Schmidt won the Allan Cup with the Ottawa RCAF while serving in the military during World War II. Or have some of the leagues that play at the lower levels of senior hockey put teams together that could compete for the Allan Cup or have a team made up of teams from around a larger community and have the qualifying dates for Senior AAA announced ahead of time and have the league and provincial playoffs not conflict with the Senior AAA playoffs.
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Post by naitch on Jul 26, 2019 8:29:18 GMT -5
There are two things that have been killing Senior AAA hockey for years (about 70 years or so), the advent of the NHL on television and Senior AA/A hockey. In the pre-television era all you had was radio broadcasts of games. The senior AAA games were live entertainment, they were that towns' Toronto Maple Leafs or Montreal Canadiens. Foster Hewitt was the main way that most people got their exposure to the NHL. Teams that haven't been in committed Senior AAA league have had their players playing on Senior AA/A team to get to play the game. The Kelowna Sparta are a good example of this from a few seasons ago. They had to back out of playing in the BC/Alberta qualifier because many of their players were tied up with the Coy Cup (the BC AA championship tournament) on the same weekend that the Allan Cup qualifier was being held, and the dates for the Coy Cup were announced well in advance. It seems like the same things keep getting done over and over again with teams popping up and dying after a few (if even that many) seasons. It is time to start thinking outside of the box (or even rely on what worked in the past). Universities and junior teams would seemingly have enough alumnus that a team could potentially be put together. How about allowing the military bases being allowed to form teams and try to qualify for the Allan Cup. Remember, Milt Schmidt won the Allan Cup with the Ottawa RCAF while serving in the military during World War II. Or have some of the leagues that play at the lower levels of senior hockey put teams together that could compete for the Allan Cup or have a team made up of teams from around a larger community and have the qualifying dates for Senior AAA announced ahead of time and have the league and provincial playoffs not conflict with the Senior AAA playoffs. I don't know anymore. As i have posted on this forum many times, I have never liked the idea of teams that are put together on the spot just to challenge for the Allan out of convenience. I feel it is a complete slap in the face to the teams that battle it out in a league all winter only to emerge to play a fully assembled squad out of who knows where that is full of mercenaries that is fresh with no knocks or niggles. I fully understand the humble beginnings of the Allan Cup and that the basis was that it was indeed a "challenge cup". With that being said...if teams are dying in the only AAA leagues left...the above is a moot point.
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Post by libdude8 on Jul 26, 2019 13:23:45 GMT -5
Hello All,
I don't comment much but have followed the forum for years and Senior hockey even longer. In fact I'm a GM in the Ontario OHA perceived "outlaw" league. Senior is shrinking in Ontario and elsewhere and needs a re-brand for sure. Our 75 year old league is down to 14 teams from as many as 24, we limit rosters to control "hired guns" but our champion Clinton team would have fit right in at the cup tourney. The Allan Cup is very prestigious and all teams would love a crack at it. The problem as a fan looking in is its controlled very loosley but with exclusivity by the governing bodies along with Hockey Canada and has become a "professional" trophy. Teams toss big money at players and build up tremendous costs to take a run at the cup. Fan and sponsor bases have dwindled due to the many modern distractions. Perhaps going back to a true challenge cup with roster restrictions and making any established team that qualifies to be eligible in there territory is the answer. With the teams being true amateur teams. We have professional championships make this a true amateur title and open it up to all of senior hockey. Maybe a regional tournament in each province in Jan with teams declaring interest and paying fees to participate is the way to go. Set limits for mileage and equipment reimbursements etc... and if teams get caught with cash side deals, reprimand them. Just some thoughts from a long time fan of this level
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Post by wade on Jul 26, 2019 16:19:01 GMT -5
There are two things that have been killing Senior AAA hockey for years (about 70 years or so), the advent of the NHL on television and Senior AA/A hockey. In the pre-television era all you had was radio broadcasts of games. The senior AAA games were live entertainment, they were that towns' Toronto Maple Leafs or Montreal Canadiens. Foster Hewitt was the main way that most people got their exposure to the NHL. Teams that haven't been in committed Senior AAA league have had their players playing on Senior AA/A team to get to play the game. The Kelowna Sparta are a good example of this from a few seasons ago. They had to back out of playing in the BC/Alberta qualifier because many of their players were tied up with the Coy Cup (the BC AA championship tournament) on the same weekend that the Allan Cup qualifier was being held, and the dates for the Coy Cup were announced well in advance. It seems like the same things keep getting done over and over again with teams popping up and dying after a few (if even that many) seasons. It is time to start thinking outside of the box (or even rely on what worked in the past). Universities and junior teams would seemingly have enough alumnus that a team could potentially be put together. How about allowing the military bases being allowed to form teams and try to qualify for the Allan Cup. Remember, Milt Schmidt won the Allan Cup with the Ottawa RCAF while serving in the military during World War II. Or have some of the leagues that play at the lower levels of senior hockey put teams together that could compete for the Allan Cup or have a team made up of teams from around a larger community and have the qualifying dates for Senior AAA announced ahead of time and have the league and provincial playoffs not conflict with the Senior AAA playoffs. I don't know anymore. As i have posted on this forum many times, I have never liked the idea of teams that are put together on the spot just to challenge for the Allan out of convenience. I feel it is a complete slap in the face to the teams that battle it out in a league all winter only to emerge to play a fully assembled squad out of who knows where that is full of mercenaries that is fresh with no knocks or niggles. I fully understand the humble beginnings of the Allan Cup and that the basis was that it was indeed a "challenge cup". With that being said...if teams are dying in the only AAA leagues left...the above is a moot point. Exactly. We’ve had 100’s of threads like this one. I’ve written thousands of words & 1000’s of posts. Nowadays...I just don’t think there is a workable solution. There is truth in the point SOTB made regarding how large cultural shifts have had a real affect on the health of SR hockey. Changes in lifestyles, media, economy and on & on...all add up to the fact that Allan Cup was a “small town concept” when small town living was vibrant & realistic. It’s not this way anymore and the Allan Cup concept is outdated & impractical.
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Post by IceMan_M on Jul 30, 2019 16:17:09 GMT -5
Who's to say it shouldn't be opened up to all Senior hockey levels and compete on a provincial level to rep your province, then it breaks out into a regional level for the chance to go to the Allan Cup. Run it like the Mem Cup. 4 teams, limits the travel costs. Pacific/Prairies, Ontario/Quebec, Maritimes and host. Or, follow the alignment of the CHL, have WHL provices be the "West", OHL covers Central, QMJHL territory covers the remaining and then the host.
Food for thought.
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Post by dontcallitsenior on Jul 31, 2019 9:07:13 GMT -5
Fort Sask saying they are back this year?
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Post by IceMan_M on Jul 31, 2019 9:41:04 GMT -5
Fort Sask saying they are back this year? Playing Senior AA in the North Central Senior Hockey League.
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Post by southoftheborder on Aug 2, 2019 2:58:13 GMT -5
Who's to say it shouldn't be opened up to all Senior hockey levels and compete on a provincial level to rep your province, then it breaks out into a regional level for the chance to go to the Allan Cup. Run it like the Mem Cup. 4 teams, limits the travel costs. Pacific/Prairies, Ontario/Quebec, Maritimes and host. Or, follow the alignment of the CHL, have WHL provices be the "West", OHL covers Central, QMJHL territory covers the remaining and then the host. Food for thought. The one major issue you run into with any sort of tournament is the fact these are adults with full time jobs with a family to support, not kids on a major junior/junior a team going to school with tutors working around their schedules.
If I went to my boss and went "I need this Friday, Saturday and Sunday off and if we win the tournament I need a Thursday, Friday, Saturday, and Sunday off a few weeks later, and if we win that I need a Wednesday, Thursday, Friday, Saturday, and Sunday off" I would be unemployed in about five seconds after I got that statement out of my mouth and he stopped laughing his ass off. Even if you work a Monday to Friday job that's 6 days you would need off. I don't know if I would want to blow a week plus of my vacation time. Unless there are provisions in the labour laws that can be pushed through to allow for such emergency situations for leave with pay as it is a matter of national importance, I don't see any format being to practical. A lot of these guys must have a hard time working their work schedules out with league/exhibition play and provincial qualifying and team practices as is.
Unless, make the Allan Cup the National "Open" Senior championship and have Allan Cup qualifying could be worked into league schedules like some of the in-season tournaments get worked out in professional soccer, like having a schedule done light for some weekends so teams can play a mid-week or a Sunday afternoon qualifier game. Or designate games as qualifiers for Allan Cup play and have part of the tournament within some of the league schedule. Good luck with the province of Saskatchewan with as many teams as they have, but they manage to work in provincial playoffs into the second half of the season year after year.
Extend an offering to a league like the WOAA to allow them to compete in Allan Cup qualifying. I know the sanctioning of the league has led to it being labed as an outlaw league but are they under Hockey Canada or even the AAU like some junior level teams have become over the past few years. Sanctioning is mostly about liability insurance for most junior leagues here in the US, is it pretty much well the same in Canada or is playing under someone else for sanctioning like crossing the mob. The outlaw label for the WOAA seems a bit harsh looking at it from a distance (not knowing the inner workings of hockey in Ontario) as the league has been relatively stable compared to other senior leagues across Canada; not like the Greater Metro junior league where teams disappear like a fart in a windstorm year after year.
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Post by jimc on Aug 10, 2019 14:09:36 GMT -5
relax Wade...I'm just busting balls...the sad reality is ANY ;less teams is a shame...the loss of a perennial powerhouse is a travesty.
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Post by jimc on Oct 3, 2019 9:40:05 GMT -5
Is there any chance the Gennies come back if the format changes??
Wade??
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Post by IceMan_M on Oct 5, 2019 17:10:39 GMT -5
I bet you'd see that happen.
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Post by jimc on Oct 10, 2019 9:49:17 GMT -5
I know they were helping lead the charge for a return to E v W.
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Post by wade on Oct 14, 2019 18:32:00 GMT -5
Is there any chance the Gennies come back if the format changes?? Wade?? Format change would maybe be ONE item on a long list of improvements that are needed. There is no point in coming back to play against 2-3 other teams in all of Western Canada. There is no prestige or legitimacy to entice them back, regardless of format changes.
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