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Post by AFAN on May 25, 2015 14:27:01 GMT -5
WHY EVEN CALL IT A TRIPLE A LEAGUE? DOES IT MATTER? ITS GREAT HOCKEY EITHER WAY. WHY NOT JUST CALL IT SR HOCKEY? THEN HAVE ANOTHER SEPARATE TEAM NAME THAT YOU ENTER THE ALLAN CUP THROUGH. USE PLAYERS FROM WHATEVER TEAM YOU WANT FOR THE ALLAN CUP AAA TEAM. MAKES PLANNING FOR THE ALLAN CUP TRIP A LOT EASIER THAN NOT KNOWING WHOS GOING.. CALL MANITOBA IF YOU NEED HELP WITH DETAILS!!!! KIND OF A SHOT BUT MAYBE SOMETHING TO THINK ABOUT. HOPEFULLY MANITOBA HAS A COUPLE OF AAA TEAMS NEXT YEAR. CANT WAIT.
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Post by podivinsky on May 25, 2015 20:48:55 GMT -5
So a 2 tiered league like the chinook league? With bentley being a legitemate aaa team and the rest being aa?
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Post by mlh01 on May 25, 2015 21:22:49 GMT -5
Wade. Trying to be objective and understand what you're saying. Why do you think that a league in Alberta with 5 teams, and a population of less than 1/3 the population of Ontario, would be stronger than an Ontario league with 7 teams.
As I mentioned before, yes there will be 3 teams in the Hamilton area....but there are 10 million people within a 1 to 1 1/2 hour drive of Hamilton. More ex-pro hockey players in this tiny area than anywhere in the world...Look it up.
A stronger league will mean many more of them will want to be a part of it.
Mark this down wade - wait til you see the calibre of players that Jason Daleo signs for his first year Hamilton AAA squad. And also mark this down...Dundas and Stoney Creek will both be stronger than last season.
What are you basing your opinion on Wade?
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Post by mlh01 on May 25, 2015 21:47:14 GMT -5
Potentially another team to be added for the season after next in Belleville. With the Belleville Bulls leaving, there is talk of resurrecting their Senior AAA team. Would help Whitby and Norwood logistically as they are the only team East of Toronto. Here is the link and copy of story. www.intelligencer.ca/2015/05/19/belleville-could-be-candidate-for-ontario-sr-aaa-hockey-franchiseBelleville could be candidate for Ontario Sr. AAA hockey franchise By Paul Svoboda, The Intelligencer Tuesday, May 19, 2015 12:56:41 EDT PM The Macs could be back. Ontario's Senior AAA hockey circuit — Allan Cup Hockey (ACH) — is reportedly interested in adding a Belleville entry to the league. ACH recently expanded to Hamilton and Thorold, bringing league membership to seven along with holdovers Brantford Blast, Dundas Real McCoys, Norwood Vipers, Stoney Creek Generals and Whitby Dunlops. ACH commissioner Brent Ladds is eyeing future franchise possibilities in Eastern Ontario and with the OHL Bulls sold and playing out of Hamilton starting next season, Belleville could be a logical candidate. “We earnestly want to add entries east of Toronto and will continue to concentrate our efforts over the next year to do so,” said Ladds. “The ACH provides an exciting brand of hockey that includes graduating junior, OHL, CIS, NCAA and professional hockey players vying for Hockey Canada’s national championship — the Allan Cup.” Former Bulls Mike Mole and Randy Rowe won an Allan Cup title with Dundas last year. Mole was with the Real McCoys again this season at the 2015 Allan Cup tournament in Newfoundland. Belleville last had senior hockey when the McFarlands won the inaugural championship of the revived Eastern Ontario Senior Hockey League in 2004. The league eventually folded with Whitby and Norwood joining ACH. The modern Macs were named in honour of the 1958 Allan Cup and '59 world champion Belleville McFarlands teams that used to pack Memorial Arena with regularity. Other senior hockey entries in Belleville after the original Macs and before the 2003-04 team were the Mohawks, Quintes and Eagles, all playing out of the old OHA Sr. A circuit from 1966-74.
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Post by wade on May 25, 2015 23:53:52 GMT -5
So a 2 tiered league like the chinook league? With bentley being a legitemate aaa team and the rest being aa? Every team in the CHL is better than, literally, every SR AA team in Alberta. The worst team in the ACH last year? Can't say the same for them. They're clearly "AA" level...but...no "AA" league to play in. Ontario fans love to point at the big population base around GTA...and no doubt it has a positive affect...at times...but...this drawing pool hasn't even successfully enabled LAST YEARS ACH league members to produce total parity. We can all admit...the bottom end teams in the ACH were terrible. And to be clear...there is NO REASON to compare ACH & CHL for this particular argument. I am 100% convinced the CHL could ONLY expand membership by going after Out-Of-Province. Calgary area has a HUGE player pool...but...just like Edmonton...a "huge" pool can feed 2-4 teams. That's it. The ratio runs about 100-1 when a GM actually starts to make calls on quality talent...in terms of "Yes" or "No" on commitment to full year of serious hockey. I'm not predicting an abysmal failure for the ACH latest expansion. I'm just concerned. And reserved. And realistic.
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Post by Aaron on May 26, 2015 9:34:29 GMT -5
When we are saying last year (LARGE CAPS or small), what season are we referring to and which bottom end teams would we all be agreeing to that were terrible?
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Post by podivinsky on May 26, 2015 11:03:23 GMT -5
So what formula is used to decide which teams are better then others? Did the lowest placing team in the ACH play the lowest place team in the CHL. Seems like a lot of guesswork.
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Post by wade on May 26, 2015 13:18:51 GMT -5
So what formula is used to decide which teams are better then others? Did the lowest placing team in the ACH play the lowest place team in the CHL. Seems like a lot of guesswork. Are you implying that you, personally, feel a "formula" is neccesary? Because it is already widely understood that although the CHL has a gap between the top end and the rest of the field...that's the ONLY disparity in the league with all other teams being competitive with one another. Can't say this for the ACH. Where the top team emerged w/o even needing a full roster most nights and the bottom team was NEVER close to competing with ANYONE all season. I see a safe opportunity here to determine Norwood could very possibly be the WORST SR AAA team in all of Canada. Certainly, the 2nd lowest Win% next to Rosetown. That's a more than a bit concerning and more than enough to say Norwood isn't up to SR AAA standards in terms of playing ability. That being said...and Donny would be quick to point out...AT LEAST...they DO play games. I sincerely commend them for this.
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Post by Arron on May 26, 2015 14:39:04 GMT -5
When we are saying last year (LARGE CAPS or small), what season are we referring to and which bottom end teams would we all be agreeing to that were terrible? As a courtesy wade, in addition to Norwood would you just please clarify who were the other bottom end teams in ACH that you refer to as clearly being terrible.
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Post by podivinsky on May 26, 2015 15:03:26 GMT -5
Well it appears that playing a season where your blowing away every team doesnt adequately prepare you for a tough tournament. Maybe playing less isnt a negative. To me the ACH appears to be a more even league where minus norwood every team has a chance on any given night.
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Post by wade on May 26, 2015 15:43:13 GMT -5
Well it appears that playing a season where your blowing away every team doesnt adequately prepare you for a tough tournament. Maybe playing less isnt a negative. To me the ACH appears to be a more even league where minus norwood every team has a chance on any given night. Your implying you don't feel the Bentley Generals were adequately prepared for tournament play...which...makes you come off a slight touch trollish. Objectively, I'd say the Generals were exceptionally prepared, played an excellent tournament and lost the Championship to a team that has ALWAYS been solid in tournament play despite not playing what most of us would think to be a necessary amount of preparational games. Of course:..that has absolutely nothing to do with this discussion. Secondly, what we ARE discussing is ACH expansion and whether or not an already very noticeable chasm in parity is any kind of indication that mass-expansion may be a BAD idea. I'm NOT sure that it is. Like I said before...I'm just cautious & realistic. My general take is that many of you Ontario posters are fully impressed at the massive population in the "Golden HorseShoe"...constantly pointing out this fact but never really seeming to translate into full relevance. Population is a good thing to have...but...it's clearly NOT a cure all. If it were such a vital cog as some seem to claim...Southern Ontario would dominate every single year. You've got half the entire countries population within your drawing area. And yet...the handful of ACH teams and the league as a whole...simply survives on a year to year basis and almost NEVER produces a RUNAWAY powerhouse team. On top of that...of the small league membership already in operation...one...maybe two...are below or barely making the grade as SR AAA competitive.
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Post by mlh01 on May 26, 2015 20:15:12 GMT -5
When I mention population, I am also looking at the large percentage of ex-pros who end up in the GTA. Again more ex-pro hockey players settle down in Southern Ontario than anywhere else in the world. The jobs are here for those (most I'll mention need an income) who continue to work - especially in a sports related field. The key, that has been mentioned on numerous threads, is getting them to play Senior instead of Men's League. The answer to getting more is providing a stronger league. Better franchises with strong fan bases will be the allure to these high calibre players. The Hamilton owners would seem to be just the type of owners to help build the ACH. My question back to you is - Why is Alberta's population of 4 Million good enough in your opinion to support 5+ teams, but with 13-14 Million in Ontario, you say the 6th and 7th teams here will be so weak. I can't see how you come to this conclusion? The ratio doesn't make sense to support your argument. Is the water better in Alberta? Are the players drinking from the Oilsands .
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Post by Don Robertson on May 26, 2015 20:17:09 GMT -5
So a 2 tiered league like the chinook league? With bentley being a legitemate aaa team and the rest being aa? Every team in the CHL is better than, literally, every SR AA team in Alberta. The worst team in the ACH last year? Can't say the same for them. They're clearly "AA" level...but...no "AA" league to play in. Ontario fans love to point at the big population base around GTA...and no doubt it has a positive affect...at times...but...this drawing pool hasn't even successfully enabled LAST YEARS ACH league members to produce total parity. We can all admit...the bottom end teams in the ACH were terrible. And to be clear...there is NO REASON to compare ACH & CHL for this particular argument. I am 100% convinced the CHL could ONLY expand membership by going after Out-Of-Province. Calgary area has a HUGE player pool...but...just like Edmonton...a "huge" pool can feed 2-4 teams. That's it. The ratio runs about 100-1 when a GM actually starts to make calls on quality talent...in terms of "Yes" or "No" on commitment to full year of serious hockey. I'm not predicting an abysmal failure for the ACH latest expansion. I'm just concerned. And reserved. And realistic. Well Wade I can't agree that bottom end teams where terrible they may not have been that good but nOT terrible, the Real McCoys finished 4th after losing 20 players. If we abeen injury free and a couple guys who just couldn't come we would have maybe played in. The finals. The new teams in the ACH League will be just fine I'm sure and may well be teams to reckon with Cheers Don Robetson
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Post by McCoys Fan on May 26, 2015 20:34:34 GMT -5
Well if the Belleville team does join and bring the ACH to 8 teams, what will we do in Ontario??? They may have to recruit some Novice and PeeWee players because we don't have many good players here. Give me a break wade. BTW-love the drinking from the oil sands comment.
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Post by wade on May 26, 2015 22:24:29 GMT -5
So, will the new schedule still be weighted?
Also...historically...let's look back 10 years ago to when Major League Hockey was trying to operate an 8-10 team (?) league. Where did they all go?! Did 10 million people move west when the oil boom hit Alberta?! Why isn't the league ALREADY at 10 teams today?
Like I've said 10 times here already...I get that you've got 14 million people. I'm not saying expansion CAN'T be a good thing. I'm just saying I have some concerns.
Any SR AAA league takes a huge amount of time & networkmanship to make a success. We're talking needle in a haystack stuff here. I wish everyone luck. I'll be watching under raised eye brows. Spock style.
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