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Post by Don Robertson on May 7, 2017 20:12:43 GMT -5
I see the Cambridge Winterhawks are leaving the OHA so they can play in the Jr A League which is governed by the OHA ( can't figure that out yet ) that said who care a door has been kicked open in a City whe e ice time is like gold. I say it's a great opurtunity for the ACH to bring back a Historic Sr hockey to a City, as the Hornets have great history in Allan Cup. Let's hope local visionaries step up and carry the tradition forward. It would be great to grow Canada's largest Sr AAA League.
Don Robertson
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Post by Sniper 81 on May 8, 2017 22:20:33 GMT -5
Don - that would be great to see if but it's a different time now. With the addition of Stoney Creek and Hamilton teams the player pool is too saturated as it is.
Both you guys and Brantford rely heavily on the Cambridge area for players. Both of those teams were short-handed often this past season and without those guys would've been big trouble for both. Losing those players will call for more non-local players who won't be able to make fulltime committments and things won't improve.
In your business, you know all about supply and demand. There will be more demand for players than supply available and there will be bidding wars for players - you have already made subtle references to it this season.
The other thing is it dilutes the talent pool for teams. Stoney Creek was head and shoulders the top Ontario team this year and still had only a so-so Allan Cup showing.
There is room for expansion but it should be East or North of Toronto.
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Post by naitch2727 on May 9, 2017 8:42:25 GMT -5
Don - that would be great to see if but it's a different time now. With the addition of Stoney Creek and Hamilton teams the player pool is too saturated as it is. Both you guys and Brantford rely heavily on the Cambridge area for players. Both of those teams were short-handed often this past season and without those guys would've been big trouble for both. Losing those players will call for more non-local players who won't be able to make fulltime committments and things won't improve. In your business, you know all about supply and demand. There will be more demand for players than supply available and there will be bidding wars for players - you have already made subtle references to it this season. The other thing is it dilutes the talent pool for teams. Stoney Creek was head and shoulders the top Ontario team this year and still had only a so-so Allan Cup showing. There is room for expansion but it should be East or North of Toronto. For the sake of discussion...let's just say the Hornet's arose from the ashes. There are enough players in the K-W & surrounding areas to ice a team that would be competitive in the Ontario loop. However-and as you state Sniper 81-most definitely not at the national/Allan Cup level. I think people would be surprised just how many players would come "out of the woodwork" sort of speak if the Hornets were to resurrect. Re: expansion...London & area could very easily ice a national competitive level team. I know probably 6-7 players in London that would rival the best players on any AAA squad in the nation. Ex-pro's with nowhere to play but don't want to drive to Brantford, Dundas, Hamilton, etc...during the week for practices. Further West...Sarnia, Windsor (already attempted with St.Clair College Saints)...and of course Petrolia that some of the Ontario members on this forum know very well. However...logistical problems obviously factor in on some of these teams/locations...the"Petrolia flu", etc...
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Post by Allan Cup Vet on May 9, 2017 10:45:16 GMT -5
Not for a second do I believe the talent level is saturated. This argument irks me. There are 10 Million people in Southern Ontario. In the Alberta Chinook League they regularly ice 4 or 5 competitive league teams with a fraction of the S Ont population.
The two gentlemen that mention Kitchener Waterloo and London are bang on. There are tons of players there that could help feed Cambridge.
I do have one question. If the Winterhawks are leaving Jr B to pursue Tier 2 Jr A, would that new organization simply not just take over the ice time slot in Galt?
Or, and Donnie you may have an in and know, with the resignation of pretty much all of the Winterhawks hockey ops point to a year off for the whole franchise? From afar it looks like a terrible mess.
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Post by Sniper 81 on May 9, 2017 10:49:46 GMT -5
Your points reinforce my thoughts.
If Dundas/Brantford lose Cambridge/KW as recruiting spots and if Brantford loses London who has provided some players then they will have issues. With all of the Hamilton area teams now there aren't enough players to adequately stock 4 local teams making the other mentioned spots necessary.
Cambridge/London would definitely have enough drawing power but my point is team relying on those areas would suffer as a result.
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Post by mlh01 on May 9, 2017 21:23:16 GMT -5
I actually agree with Allan Cup Vet. I've had this discussion in previous threads with Wade. A province with almost 15 million people, with 10 million of them within one hour of the Hamilton/Brantford/Cambridge triangle has no trouble fielding many teams.
Manitoba has just over 1 million people and this year had 3 capable Senior teams.
It's just getting the players to come out. There are so many ex-pros in the Toronto area that aren't playing Senior.
Anyway the thread is about bringing back Cambridge. I would love to go to that old barn again for Senior hockey. The days of Zezel, Rice, Gilbert Diionne were fabulous.
Can anyone answer the question about why the ice would be available if the Winterhawks move to Tier two? Wouldn't they still have rights to it? My feelings are they have now likely burned bridges and the City of Cambridge would welcome the Hornets back with open arms.
Hoping to hear updates. Any possible ownership available?
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Post by Sniper 81 on May 9, 2017 22:54:43 GMT -5
The Winterhawks entire Hockey Operations resigned. I'm sure Players will be next. I can't see the organization being on the ice this coming season whether they're successful or not.
I can't see the City holding the icetime for them unless it's paid for and at that I doubt they'd have it sit empty even if paid for it if demand is as high as we're told for icetime.
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Post by wade on May 9, 2017 22:59:06 GMT -5
Honestly...who really gives a shnitz if your competitive in the Allan Cup, anymore, anyway?
Seriously...we can look at OTHER pros & cons of league expansion..but..personally...I wouldn't waste good air worrying about what league expansion might do to your chances at a flimsy-at-best-tournament.
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Post by naitch2727 on May 10, 2017 8:21:50 GMT -5
I actually agree with Allan Cup Vet. I've had this discussion in previous threads with Wade. A province with almost 15 million people, with 10 million of them within one hour of the Hamilton/Brantford/Cambridge triangle has no trouble fielding many teams. Manitoba has just over 1 million people and this year had 3 capable Senior teams. It's just getting the players to come out. There are so many ex-pros in the Toronto area that aren't playing Senior. Anyway the thread is about bringing back Cambridge. I would love to go to that old barn again for Senior hockey. The days of Zezel, Rice, Gilbert Diionne were fabulous. Can anyone answer the question about why the ice would be available if the Winterhawks move to Tier two? Wouldn't they still have rights to it? My feelings are they have now likely burned bridges and the City of Cambridge would welcome the Hornets back with open arms. Hoping to hear updates. Any possible ownership available? Toronto is a whole other topic. The potential players there don't even want to travel outside the 416. Ask the Dunlops about trying to recruit guys & they are located in Whitby. Whitby might as well be Ottawa or Windsor to potential players. It is ridiculous.
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Post by mlh01 on May 10, 2017 9:49:07 GMT -5
Don / jimc
Any chance the owner, Joe Machado, of the Winterhawks has any interest in owning a Senior AAA team?
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Post by jimc on May 11, 2017 13:47:19 GMT -5
Everything I hear is Machado has always considered Prov Jr A as his holy grail...that was his purpose when originally buying the Hawks. He has made a travesty out of himself and the franchise with his childish antics. He is basically taking his ball and going home...He won't be allowed to operate a Jr A team out of Cambridge, so my belief is he moves the team...opening the door for SOMETHING at Shade St..Jr B expansion team would be my guess, but it would do my heart good to see Sr AAA hockey back in town.
I think Machado wants to join a 'new' Tier 2 Jr A league operating around the periphery of Toronto...one that might not be covered under the OHA umbrella, but...it all seems pretty foggy.
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Post by southoftheborder on May 11, 2017 18:18:25 GMT -5
Don / jimc Any chance the owner, Joe Machado, of the Winterhawks has any interest in owning a Senior AAA team? If he pulled out of the OHA with the team out of protest would he not be blackballed by the OHA for getting any other team any way?
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Post by jimc on May 12, 2017 10:29:40 GMT -5
He is not interested...or welcome...in the OHA
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Post by joe snugg on May 12, 2017 21:24:32 GMT -5
who would want him
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Post by Sniper 81 on May 12, 2017 22:24:02 GMT -5
I don't dispute there's plenty of players in the GTA. It's convincing them to play that seems to be an issue.
It seems out West and East (imports) players travel great distances.
I don't know if lifestyle has anything to do with it but I have often wondered if commute times could be an issue. Someone who lives/works a normal 9-5 job downtown Toronto would be hard pressed to make say a Fri pm game in Brantford/Dundas while teams with Sat pm may eliminate that obstacle assuming they genuinely want to play!
Whitby should be able to build powerhouse teams even if they still restrict themselves to Durham Region. Proximity to Toronto and no other local teams should give them an edge.
On the other hand, more teams in close proximity to each other increases the likelihood that a local player would be motivated to play with shorter away distances.
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