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BLAST
Oct 25, 2011 7:40:19 GMT -5
Post by naitch on Oct 25, 2011 7:40:19 GMT -5
Hockeypops...The MLH (now ACH??? come on, that's just lame) has long allowed compensation of players at a $25/win $5/loss formula..However, the only team I can guarantee that ever played by it, or less than, was the Petrolia Squires. Every other team has, to some degree, compensated players. Most teams simply pay cash, but others are more creative with perks like golf memberships, etc. Almost everyone pays for composite sticks, skates, etc, which have real value. There have been a number of ugly incidents in ON where shitstorms have erupted over player compensation, and players have been ruled ineligible, etc...real petty, nasty stuff. The OHA was complicit in all of it, and has left a black mark on the league and the association. I suspect teams pay less for players than they used to, but yes, Brantford spent a huge amount of money in hosting and winning their Allan Cup bid. now that they are back in, I would not be surprised to see the stakes rise again this year. many (most) Sr AAA teams compensate their players...despite the mock protestations of some of their most ardent supporters on this board. I, personally, have no problem with it, bu the double standard that exists over what is OK for your team vs anyone else is just laughable. Well said Jim C.
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BLAST
Oct 25, 2011 17:00:52 GMT -5
Post by wade on Oct 25, 2011 17:00:52 GMT -5
Brantford has history with this. They were open with me about how things were put together in 2008 and they were succesful with it. On the other hand...they ran dry and took a LOA shortly after winning the Cup. Its a fine line. You want core players who commit for all the right reasons...but...you also require talent. Pure $$$ into the pockets of ANY player is poor fiscal management, poor team building and..literally...illegal at this level. I believe most (if not all) SR AAA teams understand this. Its common cents. But there is always a desperate situation or an excpetion to the rule. True Wade. Re: the Blast when they hosted the Allan...what really left "crusties" at the bottom of the mug was a half full arena during the whole Allan. If they were open with you as you state, then you know they were banking on full capacity for at least all the Blast games. That simply did not happen.Agreed. And the poor attendance really can't be blamed on The Blast. They ahd a good squad, there were some great games played in that tournament and I really feel if we want to blame anyone for any issues around SR AAA...it (mostly)...goes right back to Hockey Canada & the utterly awful way they ignore this level of hockey.
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Deleted
Deleted Member
Posts: 0
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BLAST
Oct 25, 2011 22:21:42 GMT -5
Post by Deleted on Oct 25, 2011 22:21:42 GMT -5
paul lawson fared pretty well in his tilt with the brantford player coach bryan hamm, good job paul
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BLAST
Oct 27, 2011 1:44:09 GMT -5
Post by hockeypops on Oct 27, 2011 1:44:09 GMT -5
Hockeypops...The MLH (now ACH??? come on, that's just lame) has long allowed compensation of players at a $25/win $5/loss formula..However, the only team I can guarantee that ever played by it, or less than, was the Petrolia Squires. Every other team has, to some degree, compensated players. Most teams simply pay cash, but others are more creative with perks like golf memberships, etc. Almost everyone pays for composite sticks, skates, etc, which have real value. There have been a number of ugly incidents in ON where shitstorms have erupted over player compensation, and players have been ruled ineligible, etc...real petty, nasty stuff. The OHA was complicit in all of it, and has left a black mark on the league and the association. I suspect teams pay less for players than they used to, but yes, Brantford spent a huge amount of money in hosting and winning their Allan Cup bid. now that they are back in, I would not be surprised to see the stakes rise again this year. many (most) Sr AAA teams compensate their players...despite the mock protestations of some of their most ardent supporters on this board. I, personally, have no problem with it, bu the double standard that exists over what is OK for your team vs anyone else is just laughable. I do agree that compensation does occur, but as I understand it and has been relayed to me by reliable sources, the actual paying of players, as Horse Lake did (Fleury got upwards of $1500 per game) is what is frowned upon. For sure the compensation by supplying sticks or equipment is compensation but not what the Senior Mens Hockey powers to be are concerned with. As I understand it, it's the cash, sometimes paid in larger amounts than what the SPHL or CHL pays that is being watched for. I won't disagree that to run a AAA team you are almost obligated to provide perks to attract proper talent, just the same as Junior Hockey does. On the other hand, if your are providing perks and then playing in the money pit, the dollars just don't add up. If $25/win and $5/loss is what guys were talking about, that's not enough to buy gas to get to the rink and home so that's not what's at issue. From what has been relayed to me from reliable sources is $300 to $500 per game over and above equipment and that is what I take exception to. So when someone says, as they did in this blog, the owner should open up his wallet to get better talent, someone is now suggesting that better players are available as long as someone PAYS ENOUGH or PAYS MORE than another owner, now were in the money pit and thumbing our nose squarely at the fact that this is amateur hockey.
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BLAST
Oct 27, 2011 12:11:49 GMT -5
Post by wade on Oct 27, 2011 12:11:49 GMT -5
Idunno about Fleury getting 1500/Game. Thats not something he mentions in his book. I believe the phrase he uses was: "Everything was taken care of." And for a cocaine fuelled gambling fiend..."everything"...requires far more than 1500/Game. Far more. But thats a long time ago now. The only reason I bring it up is to re-enforce the fact most "payments" are not made with straight cash. The perks provided to the 2005 Thunder were pure genius. The players were rolling into casinos with flexible credit lines and their nightly losses were likely going right back into the pocklets of the people/person(s) who provided the credit line in the first place. Clever. Cruel. But, clever.
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BLAST
Oct 27, 2011 15:57:58 GMT -5
Post by jimc on Oct 27, 2011 15:57:58 GMT -5
The Blast paid a King's ransom for most of their A champ team. I know for a fact Steve Rice made more playing there than Cambridge ever paid him!!
I do get the impression that MLH teams have put a bit of a lid on the spending that went on when Aylmer and Cambridge were in the league, but there is no way ex-NHL players are playing for $25 and $5.
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BLAST
Oct 27, 2011 16:42:35 GMT -5
Post by wade on Oct 27, 2011 16:42:35 GMT -5
The Blast paid a King's ransom for most of their A champ team. I know for a fact Steve Rice made more playing there than Cambridge ever paid him!! I do get the impression that MLH teams have put a bit of a lid on the spending that went on when Aylmer and Cambridge were in the league, but there is no way ex-NHL players are playing for $25 and $5. My big hope is how ever Brantford or any other SR AAA team choose to operate...they make a plan based on respect for 2 key considerations: 1) The Integrity of amateur hockey 2) The sustainability of their own hockey club. Its been evident for awhile, consideration #1 can open to interpreration. And sometimes we scrutinize/gossip about whats going down. But the second consideration, really, affords no grey area. Its simple. If you run your hockey club without sufficient consideration for your long term health...the team won't be around for very long. Good teams come & go. More often than we'd like. Great teams stick with it. They don't win the title every year. But they put their name in the hat & they have a go.
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BLAST
Oct 27, 2011 19:31:16 GMT -5
Post by hockeypops on Oct 27, 2011 19:31:16 GMT -5
The Blast paid a King's ransom for most of their A champ team. I know for a fact Steve Rice made more playing there than Cambridge ever paid him!! I do get the impression that MLH teams have put a bit of a lid on the spending that went on when Aylmer and Cambridge were in the league, but there is no way ex-NHL players are playing for $25 and $5. My big hope is how ever Brantford or any other SR AAA team choose to operate...they make a plan based on respect for 2 key considerations: 1) The Integrity of amateur hockey 2) The sustainability of their own hockey club. Its been evident for awhile, consideration #1 can open to interpreration. And sometimes we scrutinize/gossip about whats going down. But the second consideration, really, affords no grey area. Its simple. If you run your hockey club without sufficient consideration for your long term health...the team won't be around for very long. Good teams come & go. More often than we'd like. Great teams stick with it. They don't win the title every year. But they put their name in the hat & they have a go. Wade, I hate to say it but again, but your comments ring true. Its about "Sustainability anf Integrity" for the game and team. Having a close source to the finances of a team I'm not sure how some of the truly outrageous amounts talked about get paid to players. I will tell you that once again some very strong rumours are circulating about players that have been offered $500 plus per game to play on a AA team and be affiliated to a AAA team. Why would someone do such a thing? Simple, most AAA teams playing in a AA league are done hockey by the end of January because the league doesn't include them in their playoffs . The playoff structure is about deciding a team to go on to the AA Provincials, hence no AAA team included, so now what do you do to keep the team sharp? Again simple, keep your real team in AA as affiliates and let them play till really needed, taking advantage of the new 19 man affiliate rule. Just rumour or soon to be fact? Only time will tell.
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BLAST
Oct 28, 2011 1:39:05 GMT -5
Post by wade on Oct 28, 2011 1:39:05 GMT -5
My big hope is how ever Brantford or any other SR AAA team choose to operate...they make a plan based on respect for 2 key considerations: 1) The Integrity of amateur hockey 2) The sustainability of their own hockey club. Its been evident for awhile, consideration #1 can open to interpreration. And sometimes we scrutinize/gossip about whats going down. But the second consideration, really, affords no grey area. Its simple. If you run your hockey club without sufficient consideration for your long term health...the team won't be around for very long. Good teams come & go. More often than we'd like. Great teams stick with it. They don't win the title every year. But they put their name in the hat & they have a go. Wade, I hate to say it but again, but your comments ring true. Its about "Sustainability anf Integrity" for the game and team. Having a close source to the finances of a team I'm not sure how some of the truly outrageous amounts talked about get paid to players. I will tell you that once again some very strong rumours are circulating about players that have been offered $500 plus per game to play on a AA team and be affiliated to a AAA team. Why would someone do such a thing? Simple, most AAA teams playing in a AA league are done hockey by the end of January because the league doesn't include them in their playoffs . The playoff structure is about deciding a team to go on to the AA Provincials, hence no AAA team included, so now what do you do to keep the team sharp? Again simple, keep your real team in AA as affiliates and let them play till really needed, taking advantage of the new 19 man affiliate rule. Just rumour or soon to be fact? Only time will tell. I'm not surprised to hear something like this "could" happen. The new affiliation concept is so utterly lame, short-sighted and stupid. The loopholes are limitless and I've said it all along...Its only a matter of time until someone from somewhere gets a hold of this rule and makes a complete mockery of SR AAA hockey. And, really... Why wouldn't it happen at the first possible opportunity? Hockey Canada was dead wrong in their design of the rule, the teams who voted in favor...were also dead wrong...and the real kicker is...Im not sure the teams who voted "YES' on this ammendment really understood what they were voting for. Bottom line...If we had far better leadership & governing...we wouldn't continue having these same coversations. AT least 75% of the problem starts at the top.
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BLAST
Oct 28, 2011 8:38:45 GMT -5
Post by naitch on Oct 28, 2011 8:38:45 GMT -5
The Blast paid a King's ransom for most of their A champ team. I know for a fact Steve Rice made more playing there than Cambridge ever paid him!! I do get the impression that MLH teams have put a bit of a lid on the spending that went on when Aylmer and Cambridge were in the league, but there is no way ex-NHL players are playing for $25 and $5. Yes, Rice was getting paid a pile...included on the large payroll was Jeff Brown & Jason Simon.
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