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Post by mlh01 on Jan 21, 2016 21:52:27 GMT -5
Having trouble understanding why having a double host would would be a bad idea to anyone??
Yes, it would mean that the Cup would have 3 Ontario teams...
But how would that be different than many of the past, recent Allan Cups?
2015 - had 3 teams from the East (Clarenville, Grand Falls and Lameque
2014 - had 3 Ontario teams (Dundas, Brantford and Kenora)
2013 - had 3 teams from the West (Bentley, Stony Plain and Fort St John)
You get my point. With no Quebec most Cups have 3 teams from the host territory.
What is the difference if two arenas host the games?
Only negative I see is both teams will not need any qualifying games...which is our biggest beef in Ontario. Kind of contradicting ourselves with two "free rides". But that is only negative to me.
Thoughts??
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Post by The Goon on Jan 21, 2016 21:53:26 GMT -5
If they put in a bid then the Generals should get strong consideration for for hosting in 2017.
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Post by mlh01 on Jan 21, 2016 22:00:00 GMT -5
Also should have added a question to Don.
I can see the benefit of no afternoon games but you are essentially cutting/dividing your audience in HALF.
I have bought packages to both Dundas Cups and to the Brantford Cup.
Now everyone will miss half the games. You won't be able to sell packages. Yes the 4 games for the 2 hosts should draw well. But you are ruining the "tournament" feel to the event. I enjoy seeing all games. Only way to avoid this is extend the number of days to the event.
Would love to hear what the plan would be to allow everyone to see every game.
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Post by wade on Jan 21, 2016 22:42:07 GMT -5
Having trouble understanding why having a double host would would be a bad idea to anyone?? Yes, it would mean that the Cup would have 3 Ontario teams... But how would that be different than many of the past, recent Allan Cups? 2015 - had 3 teams from the East (Clarenville, Grand Falls and Lameque 2014 - had 3 Ontario teams (Dundas, Brantford and Kenora) 2013 - had 3 teams from the West (Bentley, Stony Plain and Fort St John) You get my point. With no Quebec most Cups have 3 teams from the host territory. What is the difference if two arenas host the games? Only negative I see is both teams will not need any qualifying games...which is our biggest beef in Ontario. Kind of contradicting ourselves with two "free rides". But that is only negative to me. Thoughts?? Thought: The Southern Ontario league is the ONLY league in the history of the Allan Cup tournament to submit THREE teams to the same tournament. For this to happen twice in less than 10 years is not really fair. And surely not necessary. |
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Post by Allan Cup Ontario on Jan 21, 2016 23:53:43 GMT -5
Also should have added a question to Don. I can see the benefit of no afternoon games but you are essentially cutting/dividing your audience in HALF. I have bought packages to both Dundas Cups and to the Brantford Cup. Now everyone will miss half the games. You won't be able to sell packages. Yes the 4 games for the 2 hosts should draw well. But you are ruining the "tournament" feel to the event. I enjoy seeing all games. Only way to avoid this is extend the number of days to the event. Would love to hear what the plan would be to allow everyone to see every game. Agreeyou have to sell a full package of games. Otherwise if I want to see both Hamilton and Dundas play, I'd have to choose. They surely would play at least one game at the same time. As someone said, you are splitting your potential audience in half each and every night. There just aren't that many Senior hockey fans in Hamilton. Also wonder what the proposed format is. |
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Post by Don Robertson on Jan 22, 2016 15:31:31 GMT -5
Also should have added a question to Don. I can see the benefit of no afternoon games but you are essentially cutting/dividing your audience in HALF. I have bought packages to both Dundas Cups and to the Brantford Cup. Now everyone will miss half the games. You won't be able to sell packages. Yes the 4 games for the 2 hosts should draw well. But you are ruining the "tournament" feel to the event. I enjoy seeing all games. Only way to avoid this is extend the number of days to the event. Would love to hear what the plan would be to allow everyone to see every game. The plan wouldn't let fans see every game but that was the issue in 2015 not enough came to afternoon games, look this is a new project we feel will work and is new driven mostly by the fact there is such a short time frame to prepare. It does smack in the face of having to qualify but with this format it would be a neccasary evil again with a short time line. I believe to host properly takes more than 24 months and whoever host will about 13 months. I know Dundas wouldn't host with 13 months notice and we still have have the structure and 137 vollentees in place. Having an East - West best of 7 or 5 would be cool and let each region sort out how to come up with their own rep/team. Regards Don Robertson |
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Post by wade on Jan 22, 2016 16:43:23 GMT -5
It seems like the entire notion of 3 ACH teams in the same tournament isnt even an issue with most people on this board. It certainly wasn't a problem discussed here the last 2 times it happened.
Kinda revealing...towards the huge bias on this southern Ontario dominated forum...that this is only "trivial" amidst the (very) few positive things a double-host format MIGHT do.
I really wonder if this idea serves the best interest of SR AAA...or...is it 100% about the best interest of the ACH? The answer is obvious. Frankly, I'm not the least bit pissed off about Donny Robertson serving his own leagues best interest. I don't blame him or anyone else in the ACH for putting anything ahead of the Allan Cup these days. The wreaking farce that it is.
But..like I suggested earlier...maybe it's time to just park the big old ship for a year or three?
Rather than drag it...half dead...through this sludge. Let The Ghost of Monty Allan maintain some semblance of dignity.
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Post by The Goon on Jan 22, 2016 17:50:58 GMT -5
The problem being if you shelve the tournament for a year or three it might not return, 3 provinces don't have teams participating and Manitoba has 3 teams
unless they are not hosting then it's 1 team. Like Donnie was saying maybe the East vs West format should make a return, or more play downs and a 4
team tournament. So we are back to the question Wade will Bentley step up with a bid?
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Post by wade on Jan 22, 2016 18:19:23 GMT -5
The problem being if you shelve the tournament for a year or three it might not return, 3 provinces don't have teams participating and Manitoba has 3 teams unless they are not hosting then it's 1 team. Like Donnie was saying maybe the East vs West format should make a return, or more play downs and a 4 team tournament. So we are back to the question Wade will Bentley step up with a bid? All of these alternative ideas have been around for at least 10 years. They've been discussed here for at least that long. There was a time when the $$$ to make changes was actually available. This is no longer the case. The ship has sailed. I'm not saying it's the clear cut best thing to do...but...I very much believe that shelving the Allan Cup for next season (at least) should be something at least considered/tabled. No doubt there are creative & desperate ways to make a 2017 tournament happen. What Donny has proposed is just one possibility. And no doubt it's possible to find alternative solutions. But...the $ 1,000,000 question is: WHY?! What are we saving at this point? What is the point of leaving a vegetable hooked up to a machine?! There is no money. There are fewer teams than ever before. There is less rule enforcement and weaker governing than ever before and virtually ZERO coverage. I mean...f*ck...do we even know if BC is in or out right now?! It's a travesty. It's a joke. It's done. Stop the madness. Start fresh. Please. |
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Post by The Goon on Jan 22, 2016 18:28:21 GMT -5
You make some good points Wade if the powers that be shelve the tournament for a year. The question then becomes what incentive do teams have to keep playing
AAA Senior hockey anymore, this could spell the end of the Allan Cup altogether and the death of hockey at the Senior AAA level for good.
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Post by wade on Jan 22, 2016 18:37:32 GMT -5
You make some good points Wade if the powers that be shelve the tournament for a year. The question then becomes what incentive do teams have to keep playing AAA Senior hockey anymore, this could spell the end of the Allan Cup altogether and the death of hockey at the Senior AAA level for good. It's already dead, man. Two leagues in the entire country. One of which is operating with just 4 teams. This isn't SR AAA hockey. This isn't Allan Cup hockey. This is a few hard core teams hanging around. And I don't think a few hard core teams have what it takes to rebuild the entire thing. They're trying. God love 'em. But...it shouldn't be up to them alone. |
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Post by The Goon on Jan 22, 2016 18:44:59 GMT -5
Then maybe the two leagues should play for for the Allan Cup until the rest of the county can get it together.
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Post by wade on Jan 22, 2016 18:47:47 GMT -5
Then maybe the two leagues should play for for the Allan Cup until the rest of the county can get it together. I'm all for a series between the 2 league Champions...but...not with the Allan Cup on the line. The Allan Cup should be put away until we see a proper system implemented where legitimate teams compete & a legitimate Champion can be declared, each year. |
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Post by The Goon on Jan 22, 2016 19:01:34 GMT -5
You are right about this as much as the situation ticks me off Senior AAA hockey and the Allan Cup are on life support, maybe shelving the cup
for a bit would be good and Alberta and Ontario Champs do best of 5 or 7 for a new Senior AAA trophy. Then the powers that be can get this thing right.
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Post by jimc on Jan 27, 2016 13:08:52 GMT -5
Wade...seriously...I agree with a lot of what you say, but the facts are, you need 2 years to plan a solid AC event...Don does not WANT to host another event...this is actually a way of salvaging something for 2017 that otherwise might not be doable...the plan to combine forces and lessen the workload, plus financial burdens, really is sound..given the abhorrent circumstances. I have had a lot to say to and about Mr. Robertson's body of work in Sr hockey in the past, but I really do think this idea is (mostly) altruistic...now I know Donnie will have to look that up in his handy Miriam-Websters, to see that i have issued him a compliment!!!
I really think now is the time to investigate a return to the E v W best-of-7 format...and it could be done over 2 weekends, in both cities. Qualifying now would become less arduous and more meaningful, with the current precarious state of the AAA game as we know it.
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