|
Post by wade on Apr 25, 2011 15:20:52 GMT -5
so ontario teams will now have 44 cards for playoffs and the allan cup? am i taking wades post right? Affiliate players can be used at ANY point during the season. There are rules controlling how many "AP's" can play in any one game and there are rules controlling how many games an affiliate can play up to a set date. So, to your question, SR AAA teams can now utilize up to 44 different players at ANY point in the season. As far as the specific amount of total allotments...Unless there are more ammendments we don't yet know about...there are way more than 44 cards to use... Consider: Teams don't have to get down to a 25 man roster until Janaury 10th! Teams can pay fee(s) to build additional allotments prior to January 10th. And then...at the Allan Cup...we could see teams with up to 44 players on the roster...plus a provisional goalie...bringing the total to a ,nice, plump round amount of 45!!!
|
|
regal
Junior Member
Posts: 76
|
Post by regal on Apr 25, 2011 16:08:56 GMT -5
I would think the new affiliation rule would include all players playing Senior AA and below.
|
|
|
Post by rinkratz on Apr 25, 2011 16:19:53 GMT -5
That number of players was available to a team with a AA affiliate for the Allan Cup in the past wasnt it? Is this to level the playing field a bit for the teams/areas that do not have AA loops to affiliate with?
|
|
|
Post by wade on Apr 25, 2011 16:41:19 GMT -5
That number of players was available to a team with a AA affiliate for the Allan Cup in the past wasnt it? Is this to level the playing field a bit for the teams/areas that do not have AA loops to affiliate with? In the past the 'techincal total' would have been 50: (25 cards + the 25 man roster via your affiliate). The changes here...are not in the quantity of allotments...rather the flexibility afforded to use these numbers. Does it level the playing field? Not neccesarily. Truth is...we don't know exactly how it will work out for each individual team. All we know is...its going to create infinite possibilities, making it impossible to idenitify what teams are true contenders and starting line-ups will now be a crap shoot from week to week and game to game....all the way through the ENTIRE season! Its also going to be a NIGHTMARE for General Managers because they'll now be required to do full time 'scouting' in order to sieze the full gamut of this rule as its now worded. Its not likely the teams who actually 'grasp' this new rule will ever even use the FULL amount of affiliate spots. But...the 10 or 12 affiliate cards they DO use...are damn sure NOT going to be composed of ONLY the best SR AA players around.
|
|
Deleted
Deleted Member
Posts: 0
|
Post by Deleted on Apr 25, 2011 17:14:45 GMT -5
"WE" wade are you a member of the alberta hockey association or are you speaking for the generals , just asking
|
|
|
Post by wade on Apr 25, 2011 18:06:24 GMT -5
"WE" wade are you a member of the alberta hockey association or are you speaking for the generals , just asking When I say 'we' I am referring to those of us in this discussion. Something you might want to keep in mind, ronrlee... While there is no such thing as a stupid question....if you ask enough questions....there is an exception to every rule.
|
|
|
Post by wade on Apr 25, 2011 19:05:38 GMT -5
Any-hoo...while the coals are hot...I would also like to re-submit for consideration...the fact Atlantic Canada will, for a 3rd consecutive season, be sending an Allan Cup Representative which was declared the previous season.
I have stated numerous times: THE RULES SHOULD BE THE SAME FOR EVERYONE.
Clearly, this is not the case right now. Its sad. Its disgusting and its unsporting.
Its not easy to find the exact target of blame.
But I question whether or not this simple principle is a top priority for Hockey Canada???
All goes back to the need for new leadership at this level.
If the current regime cannot get the network on the same page for fundamental aspects...they should either step aside or (at the very least) admit they're having a MAJOR problem in managing this thing and put out the call for help!
At this point...it should be done so with urgency.
|
|
|
Post by naitch on Apr 27, 2011 8:04:23 GMT -5
They should do away with this affiliate crap, your team is your team...run with it, win or lose. Every province other than Ontario has been abusing this stupid allowance for too long.
|
|
|
Post by wade on Apr 27, 2011 9:16:42 GMT -5
They should do away with this affiliate crap, your team is your team...run with it, win or lose. Every province other than Ontario has been abusing this stupid allowance for too long. Its not accurate to say every other Province has been abusing the affiliation rule. Alberta teams, generally speaking, rarely use affiliate players as anything more than injury replacements. But....when teams play high level hockey for months at a time...injuries are a given and everyone knows they WILL need more than just a 25 man roster to go deep into playoffs/tournament play. One way or another...SR AAA teams MUST have access to some type of supplemental pool of players. If not....we end up seeing what Dundas went through this spring...playing the most important games of the season with an egg carton sized roster. I know its tempting to suggest simply expanding SR AAA rosters could provide a solution....but....the trouble with that is....its difficult to work 30-ish players into a steady amount of games on ONE schedule. So, its a tough sell to get a player to sign the 29th or 30th card on a team with 18-20 strong players ahead of him on the depth chart because he knows the only way he will see action is inury(s). The truth is...there WERE a LOT of different ways the out going affiliation rule could have been tweaked or improved. What has been implemented is NOT an improvement. This I am sure. Furthermore, If Hockey Canada see's a need to allow MORE methods for SR AAA players to build a volume of talent...why are they NOT stepping up funding to reflect these extra spaces on Allan Cup rosters??? Allan Cup HOST teams foot the bill for LESS THAN a full 25 man roster as it is. Now they're saying teams can sign more players but they'll have to spend their own money to bring these extra cards to the tournament. Thing about that is....when you talk to ANY SR AAA team...they say the biggest issue is not roster counts, its (of course) MONEY! Hockey Canada has just proven they are not listening to the consenus being communicated to them from SR AAA teams. Not that I didn't know that already.
|
|
|
Post by deebeegee on Apr 27, 2011 17:11:26 GMT -5
wade,sorry to go off topic but just wondering about cabana in the final.injured or healthy scratch replaced by smyth.thanks
|
|
|
Post by naitch on Apr 29, 2011 12:20:18 GMT -5
Wade, You know all this but regarding Dundas...Don Robertson gambled/wasted 3 cards on key players who didn't show. (Kuwabara, Rourke, Walker) Whether Don Robertson knew this all along is open to debate but the truth is if he had used those 3 cards on players that would have been able to commit to playing (regular season, playoffs, Allan Cup)....i bet there would have been no discussion re: the small lineup that Dundas iced during the round robin games. They should do away with this affiliate crap, your team is your team...run with it, win or lose. Every province other than Ontario has been abusing this stupid allowance for too long. Its not accurate to say every other Province has been abusing the affiliation rule. Alberta teams, generally speaking, rarely use affiliate players as anything more than injury replacements. But....when teams play high level hockey for months at a time...injuries are a given and everyone knows they WILL need more than just a 25 man roster to go deep into playoffs/tournament play. One way or another...SR AAA teams MUST have access to some type of supplemental pool of players. If not....we end up seeing what Dundas went through this spring...playing the most important games of the season with an egg carton sized roster. I know its tempting to suggest simply expanding SR AAA rosters could provide a solution....but....the trouble with that is....its difficult to work 30-ish players into a steady amount of games on ONE schedule. So, its a tough sell to get a player to sign the 29th or 30th card on a team with 18-20 strong players ahead of him on the depth chart because he knows the only way he will see action is inury(s). The truth is...there WERE a LOT of different ways the out going affiliation rule could have been tweaked or improved. What has been implemented is NOT an improvement. This I am sure. Furthermore, If Hockey Canada see's a need to allow MORE methods for SR AAA players to build a volume of talent...why are they NOT stepping up funding to reflect these extra spaces on Allan Cup rosters??? Allan Cup HOST teams foot the bill for LESS THAN a full 25 man roster as it is. Now they're saying teams can sign more players but they'll have to spend their own money to bring these extra cards to the tournament. Thing about that is....when you talk to ANY SR AAA team...they say the biggest issue is not roster counts, its (of course) MONEY! Hockey Canada has just proven they are not listening to the consenus being communicated to them from SR AAA teams. Not that I didn't know that already.
|
|
|
Post by rinkratz on Apr 29, 2011 17:31:00 GMT -5
I doubt any team would head to the Allan Cup with 44 players....but they could bring 25 for sure in this case, so work commitments, injuries and "ghost signings" etc. could be compensated for, thus protecting teams from their own gm's ineptitude, or any delusions of grandeur to sign the golden goose (or 3). This would definitley make for a better turnout and thusly a better tournament. This rule may not be perfect but it just could be a step in the right direction, we all scream for change and then belittle it when it comes.
|
|
|
Post by Don Robertson on Apr 30, 2011 16:43:58 GMT -5
Wade, You know all this but regarding Dundas...Don Robertson gambled/wasted 3 cards on key players who didn't show. (Kuwabara, Rourke, Walker) Whether Don Robertson knew this all along is open to debate but the truth is if he had used those 3 cards on players that would have been able to commit to playing (regular season, playoffs, Allan Cup)....i bet there would have been no discussion re: the small lineup that Dundas iced during the round robin games. There is no debate in my mind mind we have been there before and knew what was needed to win not just compete, of the players mentioned 2 indicated they planed to play at minium in the Allan Cup 1 was a long shot ( not Walker ) Fact is for a number of frustrating reasons it didn't work out which is my fault I made the mistake. The reality is we needed the guys who played in the League final and couldn't even get them all there 1 was ijured the others could get away from work, that frustrated all of us mostly the players who took the week off. Every other team there had other aff Sr teams to either make their team better or at least provide depth so you have a full line-up the OHA clubs don't have that option end of story. Don Robertson Its not accurate to say every other Province has been abusing the affiliation rule. Alberta teams, generally speaking, rarely use affiliate players as anything more than injury replacements. But....when teams play high level hockey for months at a time...injuries are a given and everyone knows they WILL need more than just a 25 man roster to go deep into playoffs/tournament play. One way or another...SR AAA teams MUST have access to some type of supplemental pool of players. If not....we end up seeing what Dundas went through this spring...playing the most important games of the season with an egg carton sized roster. I know its tempting to suggest simply expanding SR AAA rosters could provide a solution....but....the trouble with that is....its difficult to work 30-ish players into a steady amount of games on ONE schedule. So, its a tough sell to get a player to sign the 29th or 30th card on a team with 18-20 strong players ahead of him on the depth chart because he knows the only way he will see action is inury(s). The truth is...there WERE a LOT of different ways the out going affiliation rule could have been tweaked or improved. What has been implemented is NOT an improvement. This I am sure. Furthermore, If Hockey Canada see's a need to allow MORE methods for SR AAA players to build a volume of talent...why are they NOT stepping up funding to reflect these extra spaces on Allan Cup rosters??? Allan Cup HOST teams foot the bill for LESS THAN a full 25 man roster as it is. Now they're saying teams can sign more players but they'll have to spend their own money to bring these extra cards to the tournament. Thing about that is....when you talk to ANY SR AAA team...they say the biggest issue is not roster counts, its (of course) MONEY! Hockey Canada has just proven they are not listening to the consenus being communicated to them from SR AAA teams. Not that I didn't know that already.
|
|
|
Post by wade on May 3, 2011 13:21:14 GMT -5
wade,sorry to go off topic but just wondering about cabana in the final.injured or healthy scratch replaced by smyth.thanks Cabby had to write his fire fighters test. There was no getting around it. He flew out Saturday AM. The Army knew a week in advance of this issue and Big Smitty took up the charge to try and fill the void despite the fact his shoulder surgery was still freshly stitched.
|
|
|
Post by wade on May 3, 2011 15:53:51 GMT -5
I doubt any team would head to the Allan Cup with 44 players....but they could bring 25 for sure in this case, so work commitments, injuries and "ghost signings" etc. could be compensated for, thus protecting teams from their own gm's ineptitude, or any delusions of grandeur to sign the golden goose (or 3). This would definitley make for a better turnout and thusly a better tournament. This rule may not be perfect but it just could be a step in the right direction, we all scream for change and then belittle it when it comes. Anytime ANYONE wants 'change' they have an obligation to themselves to specify what change(s) they want to see happen. So, your damn right I will NOT be happy about this amendment. I have always pointed out simple philosophical expectations that I believe should/must be adhered to and this new affilitation rule doesn't go along with that and it doesn't address any pertinent needs of SR AAA teams. >>> First of all...rest assured there will be someone in the not too distant future rolling up to the Allan CUp with 2 busloads of players. FSJ had nearly 40 in 2010. Steinbach was close to 30 in 2009. The Generals had 30-ish in Brantford and this was all under the 'old rule'. With the new rule...its going to become like a wide open cattle rustle for some teams, specifically, for HOST teams who can garuntee all 45 guys a chance to be on a Tournament roster in April. On the flip side, some other teams will be at an INCREASED disadvantadge. Case in Point: MLH Teams, already compromised because they have no SR teams to affiliate with.... ...MLH teams srill do NOT have a viable source of supplemental players. They had to sign with JR teams in the past and they still do...the only difference is they can sign mulitple players from various teams. Truth be told...the ONLY way to generate a useful affiliation source in Ontario would be the creation of SR AA League(s). And until than happens...this rule change is as useless as teats on a boar for Ontario. I would think the new rule will assist LBK's 2012 Allan Cup quest in a huge way. The Border Kings have the nations largest network of SR AA leagues for them to harvest in Saskatchewan. Matter of fact...this rule change is, literally, a pumped up version of the affiliation ruling which helped LBK win 3 previous AC's. Up until 2 years ago...Sask SR AAA teams could pick 9 players from ANYWHERE in Sask. Now? They can upgrade with 19 different ringers in a Province where there could be as many as 100 SR AA teams and (at last check) just ONE Sr AAA team!!! And the bottom line is...Dean Filane CAN'T solve any pertinent issues for SR AAA hockey so his only recourse was to throw this bone out and hope someone might think its a decided improvement. Truth is...it doesn't accomplish anything other than open doors into empty rooms.
|
|