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Post by southoftheborder on Mar 23, 2023 6:23:17 GMT -5
maybe add some strict rules like AA hockey This would definitely open up the number of teams eligible to compete Eligibility is not the question, money is.
There is also a major difference between a guy leaving work at noon on Friday for a road game and taking a week off (likely a vacation week) and not really being able to spend time with his family as he would be tied up for a good portion of the tournament.
Unless the employer is a sponsor of the team and writing the guy's pay for the week as a donation, I don't think many bosses would be so willing to let a guy take a week off especially going into the spring where most business tend to get much busier.
U18 AAA, Junior, and university level hockey is made up of students playing hockey that can do school work online and are usually dealing with an education coordinator with the team. Senior level are guys with jobs and if they are losing a weeks pay they would have to be compensated for lost work time. About 20 to 25 people including staff that adds up to a lot of money. Not to mention travel (usually a plane ride, due to distance) and hotel rooms. That's a lot of fund raising.
I would love it if a solution to help restore the Allan Cup to the level it used to be but something has to change. The return to an East-West format like in the old days would seem to be a decent solution which would only involve three teams potentially making a road trip with teams travelling more than one province away in the East Final, West Final and the Allan Cup Final.
West Semifinal (all four provinces have provincial playoffs already, SK could have their four champions play off for Allan Cup spot)
BC champ vs Alberta champ Sask champ vs Manitoba champ
West Final BC/Alberta vs Sask/Man
East playdown (NL already has provincial tourament, NB have several leagues that could play down, PEI has one league, and Nova Scotia has one team playing in an NB based league)
Have an Atlantic tournament to cut down on time and travel All four provinces four days with one representative.
Ontario Have a playdown with ACH, WOAA, EOSHL and WOSHL with the winner advancing to East Final
Quebec Province has six leagues playing this year with 2 not playing this year that had played last year Have a region based playdown with the provincial champion advancing to the East Final
East Final
Three team round robin with championship game
Ontario, Quebec and Atlantic
Allan Cup Final Best of three or five in one location on consecutive days.
This is fairly close to the old way it used to be done. The Atlantic and East Final would be a change in format but would cut down on the number of rounds used.
This format would actually be somewhat similar to the current six team format in terms of regions and would eliminate a guaranteed spot in the tournament and have the present Atlantic, East, and Central regions playing off for one spot and West and Pacific regions playing off for the other spot.
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Post by mlh01 on Mar 23, 2023 17:10:30 GMT -5
The East - West final has been bandied about for years. But in the end it could, and likely would end up being far most expensive.
Canada is such a large land mass. The two teams who end up in the final could end up having to travel long distances 3 times…rather than the current one long road trip.
For example Powell River,BC plays a team on the East side of Alberta. This encompasses hotel rooms and travel over a weekend. Then if Powell wins and say Southeast in Manitoba wins, that’s another long trip with hotel rooms for contingents of 25-30 people.
East final would also mean plane rides and hotels in either ON, QC or NFLD.
Then under the East West Final unless the best of 7 is all played in one city, would involve the teams both travelling one weekend. Then to the other side of the country the next weekend.
Either way, the real solution is funding. Hockey Canada, Provincial Associations and/or sponsorship is only way to expect all teams to be able to travel. Or have budgets setup at beginning of season for all AAA teams that involves enough fundraising and sponsorship to help avoid the need for last minute scrambles for cash - like Inny and potentially Clarenville are facing now.
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Post by wade on Mar 23, 2023 18:14:32 GMT -5
Why bother begging Hockey Canada for survival money, knowing that’s the maximum they’re ever gonna lay on the table. (Truth be told, they’re never circling back to resurrect Allan Cup)
As I’ve said before, I truly respect Don Robertson and his respect for what the Allan Cup USED TO BE, is clearly protected in how carefully he’s explained that 2023 Allan Cup is NOT a National Championship. I hope it’s a fun tournament for whoever attends but I don’t think this is setting up for a return to glory and I don’t see what the attraction would be for anyone?
The prestige slowly leaked away when fewer and fewer AAA teams could operate while maintaining a clear distinction from AA level leagues and the chances of ever finding workable solutions waned when they last of the titans tried to meet in board rooms and made accusations rather than solutions.
The only path forward for attracting elite level national men’s teams is to start with a massive amount of money, put it into a pot, provide brand new constitutional directives on how interested people can create teams to come out & compete for a cash-to-winners tournament.
And the only way to canvass sponsors to put up that kind of money is to go to them with a proverbial photo album of what the Allan Cup was, why it failed and why there WOULD BE a market for fans, players & communities to chase after a National Mens Championship where the winners would actually dig into a big dollar figure cash prize.
I don’t know if Hockey Canada would be willing to allow the Allan Cup Trophy to be a part of this, or if they themselves would be part of this but I do know old school hockey, played in old school rinks WAS tremendously exciting and we damn sure didn’t need Hockey Canada to make it happen. They were along for the ride at best.
For a time, there were some big businesses paying attention to some of the old SR AAA teams in Alberta, Newfoundland and other parts of Canada.
If I we’re trying to make a National Mens Championship happen again…I’d be doing it with a modernized understanding of what the needs & interests are and I’d be figuring out who has lots of money and a rooted interest in keeping small town Canada moving.
I think there is always lots of possibilities but not so much when your continually trying to re-do something that’s already lived it’s life
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Post by IceMan_M on Mar 24, 2023 10:18:56 GMT -5
Why bother begging Hockey Canada for survival money, knowing that’s the maximum they’re ever gonna lay on the table. (Truth be told, they’re never circling back to resurrect Allan Cup) As I’ve said before, I truly respect Don Robertson and his respect for what the Allan Cup USED TO BE, is clearly protected in how carefully he’s explained that 2023 Allan Cup is NOT a National Championship. I hope it’s a fun tournament for whoever attends but I don’t think this is setting up for a return to glory and I don’t see what the attraction would be for anyone? The prestige slowly leaked away when fewer and fewer AAA teams could operate while maintaining a clear distinction from AA level leagues and the chances of ever finding workable solutions waned when they last of the titans tried to meet in board rooms and made accusations rather than solutions. The only path forward for attracting elite level national men’s teams is to start with a massive amount of money, put it into a pot, provide brand new constitutional directives on how interested people can create teams to come out & compete for a cash-to-winners tournament. And the only way to canvass sponsors to put up that kind of money is to go to them with a proverbial photo album of what the Allan Cup was, why it failed and why there WOULD BE a market for fans, players & communities to chase after a National Mens Championship where the winners would actually dig into a big dollar figure cash prize. I don’t know if Hockey Canada would be willing to allow the Allan Cup Trophy to be a part of this, or if they themselves would be part of this but I do know old school hockey, played in old school rinks WAS tremendously exciting and we damn sure didn’t need Hockey Canada to make it happen. They were along for the ride at best. For a time, there were some big businesses paying attention to some of the old SR AAA teams in Alberta, Newfoundland and other parts of Canada. If I we’re trying to make a National Mens Championship happen again…I’d be doing it with a modernized understanding of what the needs & interests are and I’d be figuring out who has lots of money and a rooted interest in keeping small town Canada moving. I think there is always lots of possibilities but not so much when your continually trying to re-do something that’s already lived it’s life I fully agree with you on this, Wade. The one add I’d suggest is that I think it needs to be these smaller towns/cities also helping with funding as well. Whether it’s ice times for practices/games, a few dollars, etc. but it brings excitement to the communities that these teams play in and town pride. Look at the situation Cremona got themselves in with no home rink and then moving out there. Even though they were the pits, they still drew a crowd and had people coming to games with their kids, buying concessions, drinking beers and going to the town bar afterwards. One example from recent, but I’m positive there’s many more out there that can echo this.
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Post by mlh01 on Mar 25, 2023 15:49:43 GMT -5
Hearing Clarenville is confirmed. Announcements next week.
Ticket packages will only be $100 for all games. On sale next weekend.
Come out and support !!
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Post by mlh01 on Mar 26, 2023 22:42:03 GMT -5
Hamilton defeats Dundas 6-5 in OT in last game of round Robin.
Wentworth is eliminated
Dundas/Hamilton will play for Robertson Cup.
Both teams advance to Allan Cup
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Post by dontcallitsenior on Mar 27, 2023 13:59:09 GMT -5
Logo for this years event.
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Post by outwest95 on Mar 28, 2023 13:01:53 GMT -5
I know the Ontario league is still going, however do we have any early predictions?
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Post by mlh01 on Mar 28, 2023 22:43:38 GMT -5
I know the Ontario league is still going, however do we have any early predictions? I’ve been to many Allan Cups. I find the Ontario teams generally have more pro experience and talent. The large size of Ontario dictates this. On paper it’s generally not a contest. Even the “best team” ever (Bentley) lol did not come close to having the same talent as the Ontario teams. But they played tough Western style, team orientated hockey. No prima- donnas like our Ontario teams tended to have. The Generals, therefore, won more than they lost. Will Innisfail bring the same tenacity ?? Newfoundland will likely be a step below but in watching Clarenville in 2-3 games the last few years when I’ve been out on the Rock, they have talent, a decent mix of youth but don’t have the same ex-pro experience. They will be helped by adding 4-5 top players. In the end if you look at rosters, Dundas likely has highest caliber. The issue is the Ontario Senior AAA games at times can be like beer league hockey. Some games with very little body contact. Alberta will bang and Newfoundland will bring heart. In the end I see Dundas Vs Inny in Final. Dundas wins in final is my prediction. *** my pick is asterisked as I’ve only seen 3 of the 4 teams. Haven’t even watched the highlights on you tube that Inny posts. I’ll take a look before the tourney.
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Post by southoftheborder on Mar 29, 2023 3:17:52 GMT -5
Is Clarenville confirmed? From looking at this article on the Allan Cup Hockey league website it is not a definite yet.
Look at the section at the end of the article
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Post by outwest95 on Mar 29, 2023 23:38:40 GMT -5
Innisfail is a very skilled team. Very fast as well, lots of youth with a few ex pro players. Shoild so fairly well. I’m in the opposite boat with not seeing the teams out east. Anyone know if there are highlites anywhere?
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Post by wade on Mar 30, 2023 15:20:12 GMT -5
Did Inny agree to not bring any affiliated players to Dundas?
I know Don Robertson has always been adamantly against the concept of affiliates while Alberta SR AAA teams seemed to bring a few AP’s, whether they needed them or not.
And let’s be honest…there has been absolutely zero public transparency on whose bringing what players.
That’s a big 180 from the golden days when I’d be on here every nite of the week name dropping.
Seems like this specific tournament is more like an attempt at good will among a very short list of people wanting to try an experimental tournament with the hope of it growing into something more.
Anyways…I never went to any games between Inny & Stony this year so the only reconnaissance I’ve got it word of mouth from a few sources…
I definitely don’t think Inny is going to be anywhere near as strong as past Albertan SR AAA Champions. From what I’ve been told, Stony struggled to find enough top quality players who’d consistently show up & while Innisfail has a little more success with recruitment…at the end of the day they’re arguably a shade better than most AA teams in Alberta.
It’s gonna be 4 teams coming in completely blind.
And I don’t think anyone has even thought about seeing a way to do it again next year
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Post by mlh01 on Mar 30, 2023 21:40:58 GMT -5
Is Clarenville confirmed? From looking at this article on the Allan Cup Hockey league website it is not a definite yet. Look at the section at the end of the article
Yes like I said a few days ago. Clarenville is confirmed. Extremely happy they are back. Hearing next year will be open to all AA and AAA teams. If approved, this will bring Allan Cup back to the forefront of Senior hockey. Will open it up to every province again.
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Post by southoftheborder on Mar 31, 2023 4:19:40 GMT -5
Is Clarenville confirmed? From looking at this article on the Allan Cup Hockey league website it is not a definite yet. Look at the section at the end of the article
Yes like I said a few days ago. Clarenville is confirmed. Extremely happy they are back. Hearing next year will be open to all AA and AAA teams. If approved, this will bring Allan Cup back to the forefront of Senior hockey. Will open it up to every province again. The AESHL also finally confirmed it on Thursday.
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Post by outwest95 on Mar 31, 2023 11:44:11 GMT -5
Did Inny agree to not bring any affiliated players to Dundas? I know Don Robertson has always been adamantly against the concept of affiliates while Alberta SR AAA teams seemed to bring a few AP’s, whether they needed them or not. And let’s be honest…there has been absolutely zero public transparency on whose bringing what players. That’s a big 180 from the golden days when I’d be on here every nite of the week name dropping. Seems like this specific tournament is more like an attempt at good will among a very short list of people wanting to try an experimental tournament with the hope of it growing into something more. Anyways…I never went to any games between Inny & Stony this year so the only reconnaissance I’ve got it word of mouth from a few sources… I definitely don’t think Inny is going to be anywhere near as strong as past Albertan SR AAA Champions. From what I’ve been told, Stony struggled to find enough top quality players who’d consistently show up & while Innisfail has a little more success with recruitment…at the end of the day they’re arguably a shade better than most AA teams in Alberta. It’s gonna be 4 teams coming in completely blind. And I don’t think anyone has even thought about seeing a way to do it again next year I don't think we will see those days when we get to know ahead of time who is going and what is happening etc. I could see it all be handled in a private setting between the associations, HC, and the committee and released on an agreed timetable. Hopefully earlier in the year so there can be more teams who take a shot. I agree, I think it will be 4 teams coming in not knowing what to expect from one another, however from my perspective that is what makes it exciting and adds to the entertainment. We expect certain teams to play a certain way because of years past and who knows, we could all be in for a pleasant surprise to see old play styles turned into something completely different.
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