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Post by wade on Aug 2, 2024 18:10:34 GMT -5
The moment Inny & Stony committed to the NPHL, they were effectively done as SR AAA teams. Regardless of what hopeful/confusing/contradicting quotes are out there.
So, as of now…you’ve got southern Ontario chasing Allan Cups all to themselves…which is a damned disgrace and shouldn’t be allowed to happen IMO. I said it many times but nobody wants to wake up from the nightmare apparently
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Post by southoftheborder on Aug 2, 2024 20:18:37 GMT -5
If they open up the Allan Cup for AA teams to host.They would find that these towns support senior hockey tremendously and that it could only help to grow the game and the stigma around the Allan Cup. If the OEHL is eligible to compete for the Allan Cup then it is likely open to Senior AA teams, besides the two entries for Newfoundland over the past two years were Senior AA. And if I remember correctly the only requirement to host the Allan Cup is that you have to be registered at the Senior AAA for at least the season PRIOR to hosting the tournament. Newfoundland was announced as being the host in 2026 as an appreciation for participating in the last two tournaments in Ontario. Besides it seems like rules for declaring Senior AAA have been pretty much well ignored for the past several years anyway. With the tourament being held in Alberta this year you could see a team from BC, Saskatchewan, and Manitoba declare Senior AAA and have a easy time qualifying for the Allan Cup if they are trying to get it back up to six teams again since they are not traveling half way across the country to get there. The tournament in Newfoundland could be interesting to see who will try to qualify. Fewer teams from the West and some new teams from the Atlantic region as they would likely have three spots in the tournament. They should just use a slightly different qualifying process for when the tournament is in particular regions of the country like having the four western provinces qualify for one spot when the tournament is in the Atlantic region and one team total qualify from Quebec and the Atlantic region when its in the west and give the extra spots to teams closer to the event to save on travel expenses for more teams. And use the current format when it is held in Ontario. I'd say bring back the Hardy Cup for a Senior AA national tournament but go with the east-west format with the east and west qualifiers being like the national format with a round robin involving the four western provinces and have an Atlantic qualifier tournament and then an eastern tournament with three teams Atlantic, Quebec and Ontario with the winners of the East and West tournament meeting in and East-West final in one of the two finalists communities
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Post by mlh01 on Aug 4, 2024 8:59:23 GMT -5
Alberta will NOT be hosting the Allan Cup in 2025. Innisfail announced at same time they moved to AA. My understanding is they haven't completely given up the dream of still competing in the Cup.
The ball is now in Newfoundland's court. They have been granted the option of hosting a year earlier in 2025.
Not sure if everyone else in the country is aware but the ECHL Growlers left the province, leaving the 6,000 seat Mary Brown Arena empty
The St John's Ice Caps Senior AA team just announced they will be moving there this coming season. Have already heard rumours that there is an appetite to host a National championship
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Post by mlh01 on Aug 4, 2024 9:03:23 GMT -5
Continuing....
If Newfoundland cannot put it together to host the Allan Cup next year, then I have heard Wentworth, Ontario will host. Great owner with lots of cash. They would do a great job. They get good crowds for regular season games.
Last - southoftheborder is correct that AA teams will be allowed to compete for Allan Cup. Opens it up to the whole country
Wade - not sure why such hate for the Allan. I never understand why you wouldn't want a National championship?
Donnie and others in a few provinces are trying to keep the old lady going.
Personally I am hoping to see it return to glory !
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ou812
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Post by ou812 on Aug 4, 2024 9:22:41 GMT -5
Correct me is wrong or if I am just missing the obvious... but AA can compete only if they win their loop? The wording makes is sound like "any" team can enter. Sorry if this is obvious but to me the whole thing just sounds like money grab for the Ontario ACH loop brass.
Also, Wentworth owner does have deep pockets, again it's financial for him as he owns the nearby bar, etc. I doubt he would be interested otherwise. There is lots of negativity there around player treatment going back to their first season when they signed a player, (first signing) gave him a letter, announced him, then claimed he wasn't good enough to make the team (when they could not get him released from previous overseas team). Guy offered to pay the release and get sponsorship so he could play. It was a publicly visible argument on social media. Very unprofessional.
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Post by mlh01 on Aug 4, 2024 13:09:58 GMT -5
All teams have many skeletons in their closet very similar to the one you mention with Wentworth.
His restaurant next door is a great spot. But not opened to be a money maker. Gryphen Financial opened the restaurant as a tribute to his father who passed away. The Financial company does extremely well. The restaurant has many rooms deficated to various sports:teams etc. His father had many newspaper clippings, hockey cards etc that are on display in each room, both levels. Interesting on its own and worth the visit.
So what I am saying is the tournament will be held either in Newfoundland or at Harry Howell Arena with Wentworth hosting.
To answer question about who is eligible, yes its the "winner" of the Senior AA league. But same goes for the ACH. Only the winner is eligible.
If hosting that province can add a second entry. So no special treatment.
We just need more teams to declare.
I feel long term, ALL AA teams will be eligible. That is the only way I see it working and having representation from most provinces
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ou812
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Post by ou812 on Aug 4, 2024 13:45:07 GMT -5
Thank you for the history info. I appreciate the correction. I didn't know about that back story. That said, I hear staff is toxic and some players are too. The story mentioned is not the only one I have heard. The fact the coach publicly belittled that guy on social media says a lot about his character and the "entitlement" culture of that team.
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Post by mlh01 on Aug 4, 2024 19:26:48 GMT -5
Yes I have heard the same thing about Wentworth management from folks in Stoney and in Dundas.
Although in fairness, I have been at Gryphens home games and heard similar complaints lodged against Stoney and Dundas lol
Everyone has dirty laundry.
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Post by mlh01 on Aug 4, 2024 19:30:45 GMT -5
Getting back on topic:
I haven't pushed for any info from my sources concerning new Ontario teams. Last I heard the ACH was potentially looking at Niagara, Woodstock and even returning to the Brampton/Mississauga area.
Its now mid summer - anyone have any news concerning teams declaring AAA in any area of the country?
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Post by outwest95 on Aug 4, 2024 22:00:37 GMT -5
AAA is dead out west at least for this year. And it will be a tough sell to get the western representation needed to have tournament if it goes out east again, especially in NFLD, if what’s said is true regarding the flip. Only teams based off what I have read here and heard is that Stony or Innisfail would be the only eligible teams to host given their AAA status from the year before. However, as mentioned this will not occur given the demands the NCHL gave the two in order to be accepted into the league.
However with that said, it’s not entirely a 100% sure thing that AA teams wouldn’t challenge for the right to go from the west. Especially from BC where there is strong AA teams and the NCHL, arguably, the best AA league out west and in AB. However it would be a hard sell given costs associated, and we know that given what has been made public in the past.
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ou812
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Post by ou812 on Aug 4, 2024 22:03:37 GMT -5
I am told Woodstock is a shoe-in. Can't imagine Brampton or Missy area getting a SR team since both areas have new teams in OHL and Jr C and there is only so much ice available. I did hear Oakville/Burlington earlier but that seems to have fizzled at the $100K bill. The old rumour of Wasaga Beach keeps popping up again
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Post by southoftheborder on Aug 5, 2024 4:50:30 GMT -5
If it's in Newfoundland no teams west of central Ontario will try to qualify as Toronto is the western-most destination served out of St. John's airport. I wouldn't be surprised to see one or two teams from New Brunswick consider a run if it ends up being in Newfoundland. Looks like it would be a four team tournament again then (Host, Herder winner, Ontario, and one other team (New Brunswick entry, the runner up for the Herder, or the loser of the OEHL/ACH qualifier)).
Allowing Senior AA teams to enter would potentially give the Allan Cup a boost; but, then again all they are doing is combining two levels of play. The problem has been Hockey Canada's lack of support for this level of play either financially or even acknowledgement, as they don't even list the Allan Cup on their national events pages anymore (been at least 6 or 7 years now). There are enough large companies in Canada that sponsoring a national event would just be a business expense for them but with the negative publicity that Hockey Canada has received over the past decade or so with scandals. That would make it seem unlikely. Even TELUS pulled its' sponsorship of the U-18 men's national championship for 2023, before restoring it after the shake up at the to of Hockey Canada. Tim Horton's just off the name of the business alone would seem like a natural choice for it especially as they are no longer sponsoring the Brier men's curling championships.
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Post by wade on Aug 5, 2024 9:45:24 GMT -5
Continuing.... If Newfoundland cannot put it together to host the Allan Cup next year, then I have heard Wentworth, Ontario will host. Great owner with lots of cash. They would do a great job. They get good crowds for regular season games. Last - southoftheborder is correct that AA teams will be allowed to compete for Allan Cup. Opens it up to the whole country Wade - not sure why such hate for the Allan. I never understand why you wouldn't want a National championship? Donnie and others in a few provinces are trying to keep the old lady going. Personally I am hoping to see it return to glory ! MLH, I feel like, with just a little bit of respectful consideration you could’ve answered your own question regarding why I don’t like seeing Allan Cup being operated the way it is, currently. It’s obvious this is NOT a national championship. TBH it wasn’t a national championship the moment Quebec stopped sending teams in 2008. But as of now…you’ve got maybe 2 different provinces and technically only one complete Hockey Canada branch sending teams which BTW aren’t being sanctioned or recognized by The Mother Ship. For the AA teams who refuse to compete: Thank You for respecting Allan Cup. For the teams and players who continue to be willing to steal history from the cobwebs of truly elite/amazing SR hockey legends…shame on all of you. The Warroad Lakers, Drumheller Miners, St George Garagas, Brantford Motts, Bentley Generals…these are real champions…just to name a few. There was a time when Allan Cup sold both quality and quantity. And then it was down to just quality. And now? Neither. There is no challenge or credibility being the team that showed up subsequently the team getting their name on the trophy. And the idea that by continuing to allow a fake tournament to happen will somehow sprout regrowth is just not holding water. You’ve done that for 2 years now and the list continues to get shorter. Zero credible evidence suggesting any new or renewed interest Moving forward
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Post by sprintcars on Aug 5, 2024 11:30:42 GMT -5
hey Wade as far as AA teams not respecting the Allan Cup.What are you talking about.The NFLD league is now a AA league where the Herder cup winner is declared AAA to compete.If you know so much about Ontario the best senior teams are playing in outlaw AA leagues because of Hockey Canada.Teams like Stratford,Tillsonburg,Alvinston,Tilbury are full of ex pro players.These pro players are mid 20 to early 30yrs not like the AAA league who brings in players 35-50yrs. Hell Minto 81s would of won the Allan Cup last year if allowed to compete.AAA hockey is dead period.Time for a change and create a tournament similiar to softball where a true national champion is declared.
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ou812
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Post by ou812 on Aug 5, 2024 13:22:41 GMT -5
For me, simply said... Hockey Canada and the OHA are what is wrong with SrAAA hockey and holds it back (because they don't really care).
Remove releases and have free agent status for every player after each season would be a good step in the right direction. I know most don't hold players back, but some do, and it weakens the pool as they just move (if geographically possible for them) to an "outlaw" league to forgo the headaches.
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