sam
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Posts: 22
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Post by sam on Mar 19, 2012 17:26:30 GMT -5
I appreciate how you talk about the race card and ASSUME those of us commenting are of a different race, whatever that may be.
Perhaps you should give your head a shake.
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Post by hockeypops on Mar 19, 2012 18:01:04 GMT -5
Kim Marsh was at the Stony game with Ray and was holding a print out list of players before the game. Actually, he was holding 2 print out lists. One was the Stony roster and one was the HL roster. Both lists were the registered player lists as printed off the HCR system. It was his way of checking "BOTH" rosters. If, for a minute, you think this was aimed at HL by Kim Marsh, then none of you know Kim. He represents all Senior Hockey in Alberta not just the Chinook League. If you don't know, you should, that for any infraction in the NPHL that concerns HA, Kim is the guy that makes the call. If Stony had been the one to make the player error there is NO DOUBT in my mind as to what would have happened to the Stony coach. Kim has been around hockey for a long time and was once the Governor for the AJHL. Look at his track record and you will see he is a stickler for details, no matter who the team is, so stop this woe is me stuff about HL being picked on by Kim Marsh.
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Post by hockeypops on Mar 19, 2012 18:47:44 GMT -5
Other than the fact that you "dislike" the idea of the players getting paid, please point me in the direction of the rule that states they are not aloud to be paid?? Why should they be put in a bad light because they have the means of "opening the purse" to do what they feel (right or wrong) to win an Allan Cup. Yet again an extremely caddy remark from Hockeypops towards HL. It is unfortunite that yet again HL has been referenced to the 2005 team, they are run under a completely different organization at this point and are nothing like the previous team. If someone can 100% guarentee that no other player accross alberta or canada is getting "perks" for playing than perhaps the money issue should be laid to rest. As has been discussed on other threads in this forum, Senior Hockey is considered to be amateur hockey and other teams in Canada have been banned from hockey for openly paying players. The reason Quebec doesn't participate in the Allan Cup is because they openly pay players to play Senior Hockey. No one argues that paying expenses or small perks or giving some travel expense to players is not done, but when you hear of players receiving all the perks and then getting $1000 plus per game to play, you've long passed any sense of proportion or consideration of being amateur. The statement is not that I don't like players being paid or am against it but in fact about the rules to the game. That and the fact that the average team has no such resources to pay that kind of money. Interestingly enough, that type of money is far greater than most guys make playing pro in the CHL (average about $450 per week) or ECHL (average maybe $600 per week) and for many players, more than the AHL. But it's OK, call me whatever you want, think about me what you will, I know what I've heard and who I've heard it from. Not the same team as 2005, your right, but the deep money pot is the same source!! Why can't it be stopped at this time if it's true and against the rules? Because it takes concrete, can't be denied, proof, not just players talking.
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Post by hockey19 on Mar 19, 2012 18:56:36 GMT -5
Im sure Horse lake has taken a step back and accepted it wade, obvioulsy moved on long ago. Their hockey players,they are trained to have a bad memory. So no need for your foney advice. This is just a message board, where guys like us can keep updated. Im reading what your reading, so dont try pin this on HL. Obviously anyone with a computer can have a say. That being said, think its time to drop the they did this they did that bla bla bla wah wah wah. They are a team like any other is..
My only question was answered.
In fact Wade why dont YOU look at this from a different perspective. Pretend this happen the the Army.. ya ya we know it never would but, with the way the protest happen or how many games the coach got suspended, you think there should be a discussionÉ
race card!É come on wade! this is about hockey,dont pull that crap. Your embarassing yourself.
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Post by wade on Mar 19, 2012 20:18:11 GMT -5
Im sure Horse lake has taken a step back and accepted it wade, obvioulsy moved on long ago. Their hockey players,they are trained to have a bad memory. So no need for your foney advice. This is just a message board, where guys like us can keep updated. Im reading what your reading, so dont try pin this on HL. Obviously anyone with a computer can have a say. That being said, think its time to drop the they did this they did that bla bla bla wah wah wah. They are a team like any other is.. My only question was answered. In fact Wade why dont YOU look at this from a different perspective. Pretend this happen the the Army.. ya ya we know it never would but, with the way the protest happen or how many games the coach got suspended, you think there should be a discussionÉ race card!É come on wade! this is about hockey,dont pull that crap. Your embarassing yourself. I certainly wouldn't be on here pointing the finger at Kim Marsh. I don't agree with everything he does...but...I respect his authority and his track record speaks for itself, as hockeypops also vouched. In fact...thats what has really pissed me off. I was under the impression this was an issue we were all going to shake our heads at and do the best we can to move forward under trying circumstances....BUT...I feel compelled to stick up for Mr Marsh here for a few reasons: 1) First & foremost, Kim & Ray take great pride in the positions they hold & they are both men of sound integrity. The decisions they make may not always be agreeable to everyone involved and there is a contstant need for improvement. But Ive always felt comfortable in the level of professionalism, honesty and ethics Senior hockey is governed under in Alberta. Its especially evident if/when you take a look around the country at the way other branches are operated/governed. Senior hockey can be an elusive beast to try and rule over. We are all fortunate to have quality people doing the best they can in Alberta. And thats not to say its improper to hold a discussion on the matter or to ask some questions. I just think its way over the line when HL people imply Kim Marsh was out to get them or that he made an inconsistent ruling based from a position of contempt or disprespect for a specific team. Secondly, As I have said several times already...its the SYSTEM which needs fine tuning. Not the person(s) overseeing the system. Thats the best way (IMO) to ensure these fiascos don't keep happening. And also...its not like were actually getting any solid evidence to support the storyline these HL "fans" are giving us. The case being made here is flimsy and full of innuendo. That bothers me. But...its refreshing to know it is JUST "fans" making these brash and ignorant claims (that happens all the time ) I would be much more disappointed if it was coming from inside the Horse Lake hockey club. But to finish my answer to the original question...I would use any comparable occurance to the Gens' as further proof the entire system needs an overhaul...and Im sure everyone would tell me the only reason I wanted change was my selfish "pro-Gens" attitude. And I probably wouldn't worry much about a one year suspension to OUR coach. Because I would expect him to be permanently removed from his position with the team anyways.
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Post by wade on Mar 19, 2012 20:40:25 GMT -5
I appreciate how you talk about the race card and ASSUME those of us commenting are of a different race, whatever that may be. Perhaps you should give your head a shake. Where did I assume anyone's racial background? The answer is: I didn't. Anywhere. Ever. And to be fair...its not something thats been mentioned in this particular thread. But I have seen it in this forum as well as other social media vehicles. I actually re-tweeted a comment from a person I am "following" on Twitter...but...I did choose to leaver it on twitter rather than drag that BULLSHIT onto this forum.
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Post by hockey19 on Mar 19, 2012 21:23:12 GMT -5
Wade relax! The question was, does it have to be a Stoney Plain member to make the protest. Thats all i wanted to know, if it means nothing, so be it. I dont know Marsh from a hole in the wall, just happend to be his name on the first post. I read what i read, just like you..
Really, who cares. This is all just BSing anyway.
I caught up on the other 5 page thread and Horse Lake im sure accepted what is and have moved forward. Lets not blame it on them , we* can BS all we want but, im sure the horse is dead and im done beating on it.
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Post by hoover37 on Mar 19, 2012 22:53:39 GMT -5
Where was mr march when LBK had all these imports on their lineup in a Alberta playoff game and when will there coach b suspended for the year and when will they loose the games they won "ON THE RINK" as wade would like it to happen. On the rink!!!! Just a question??? Or do these rules only count now??? I wonder. Hmmmmmmmm
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Post by hockeypops on Mar 20, 2012 0:30:30 GMT -5
Where was mr march when LBK had all these imports on their lineup in a Alberta playoff game and when will there coach b suspended for the year and when will they loose the games they won "ON THE RINK" as wade would like it to happen. On the rink!!!! Just a question??? Or do these rules only count now??? I wonder. Hmmmmmmmm OK just a quick recap from previous posts. LBK is a Saskatchewan team playing in Alberta, just the same as Fort St John is a BC team playing in Alberta. If FSJ broke the rules, Kim Marsh only has the authority to report it to Hockey BC then whatever they do is up to them, not Kim Marsh and Hockey Alberta. That is exactly what was done with LBK but Hockey Saskatchewan has chosen to do nothing. We can only assume because it would weaken LBK in the Allan Cup they're hosting. In addition, because HS doesn't require final team rosters to be entered in the HCR until February, no official records could be gotten from HS until the league was over and the first round of playoffs were completed. At that point, it was decided that removing points did nothing and meant nothing as the Chinook playoffs were all but done. You do ask a very good question as to when will the LBK coach be suspended as that is the same question all AAA teams in Alberta have and continue to ask. No Alberta team I am aware of is happy with the LBK situation and are steaming about HS doing nothing. You are p---off because you are confused about the LBK situation and assuming Kim Marsh has treated teams differently. He hasn't and has done all he can do but it's not his jusidiction to hand out suspensions, as it wouldn't be if the team was FSJ and not LBK. I have heard that other things are afoot and the LBK situation is not dead, forgotten or put to rest yet and I look forward to seeing what the final outcome will be. Yes it is frustrating when rules are broken and governing bodies turn the other way but HS has made a mockery of this situation and made a mockery of their AAA playoff situation as well. So all said and done HS is looking pretty shabby in the eyes of Senior Mens Hockey and it's fans.
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sam
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Posts: 22
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Post by sam on Mar 20, 2012 10:01:44 GMT -5
Everything aside I guess, rules were broken punishments/repercussions were handed down and you can go back and forth pointing the finger forever. As a supporter of HL I look at it from two sides, HL should have had their information in order and been for a lack of better words "playng by the rules" but also senior hockey needs to somehow become more consistant from province to province and team to team.
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Post by hockeypops on Mar 20, 2012 10:19:57 GMT -5
Everything aside I guess, rules were broken punishments/repercussions were handed down and you can go back and forth pointing the finger forever. As a supporter of HL I look at it from two sides, HL should have had their information in order and been for a lack of better words "playng by the rules" but also senior hockey needs to somehow become more consistant from province to province and team to team. I agree whole heartedly. It's the same rules for everyone from HC but some Provincial bodies seem to want to do their own thing and it's frustrating to say the least.
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sam
New Member
Posts: 22
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Post by sam on Mar 20, 2012 10:26:44 GMT -5
Yes, like i said you can go back and forth with the illegal player issue. It is unfortunite the way that it happened I guess and I can imagine from any teams standpoint would be a kick in the gut to have a hard faught game taken back.
Back to the drawing board I guess and should be a great game this friday.
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Post by hoover37 on Mar 20, 2012 11:27:49 GMT -5
Still bogus. They played for a Alberta title in a Alberta league under Alberta rules and got away with cheating. Breaking the rules. If a team from Japan comes to play they don't bring there own rules to Alberta. They play under Alberta rules. If they karate kick someone on the ice and say its ok to do that in Japan does it go unpunished. I don't think so. It's in Alberta under Alberta rules. So LBK should b punished the same way HL is being punished. Take there games and coach away. It's the same dam thing. Or if they get a warning or fine or whatever give the same punishment to HL. Leave it on the rink right wade.
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sam
New Member
Posts: 22
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Post by sam on Mar 20, 2012 12:08:58 GMT -5
You will never change it, no matter what happens. Unfortunately life isn’t always fair and especially in hockey politics from the little tykes to senior hockey, it will never be clear cut like that. It SHOULD be, but never will.
It would be awfully controversial if the Coach of the team hosting the Allan Cup was suspended indefinitely due to playing illegal players...regardless of who's decision that may be HS or HA. Too bad HL wasn’t running under HS rules…
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Post by hannibal on Mar 20, 2012 12:49:50 GMT -5
I have played under both associations and I would take Hockey Alberta over Sask Hockey anyday. They don't care about any of the teams regardless if it is AAA, A or D. They only care about the title they have and thats it. Kim and Ray Marsh do a great job running the senior hockey in Alberta.
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