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Post by Senior Hockey Vet on May 5, 2014 19:32:55 GMT -5
Let's put this into perspective for Wade...
It has been mentioned on here that the field is much stronger when the Cup is played in Ontario. It is true. The Ontario teams simply don't travel well...or as well as their Western counterparts.
This has been true since the round robin format was introduced and even more so in the old two team final.
Since 1909 (105 years), no Alberta team has EVER won an Allan Cup that was hosted in Ontario. And only 3 times (1928, 2001 and 2003) has a Western team, from any of the 4 provinces, won an Allan Cup that was hosted on Ontario.
And to save you the time wade...there have been many, many Western teams that have played in the two team finals in Ontario...
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Post by wade on May 5, 2014 20:26:37 GMT -5
That's not "perspective", man.
That's ambiguity.
And it's not even a century worth of ambiguity because your entire thesis is that...somehow...Ontario teams are ALWAYS night & day better when the tournament...or...in pre-tournament times...the series/games is Ontario due to this assertion that they..."DON'T TRAVEL WELL".
Let's talk actual perspective. Let's talk how appallingly arrogant this suggestion truly is
"Oh...Ontario teams win the Allan Cup everytime it's in Ontario because that's the only time they give a shit about the Allan Cup"
Are you partying with Rob Ford, man?!?!
Get this...The last 2 times the Allan Cup was hosted by Ontario...they composed 50% of the tournament field. Both times. Gotta love those odds, Mayor Ford.
And as far as both those tourneys being won by the host team...(which is undoubtedly the next chunk of brilliance your going to lit up the pipe with)...well...the rest of us are already aware of the fact the HOST teams in ALL tournaments have exceptionally good odds.
"Ontario teams don't travel well"...he says...hahahahaha
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Post by wade on May 5, 2014 20:33:44 GMT -5
I might add...you forgot about the 2011 AC hosted in Ontario.
3 Ontario teams in that tournament and none of them in the finals.
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Post by wade on May 5, 2014 20:41:34 GMT -5
More water.
Of the last 4 tournaments Ontario has hosted: They have qualified only two of 10 different possible teams for an Allan Cup Final game.
So, basic math being what it is...your thesis is now de-boned...and all your left with is obvious flab...which is...Two Ontario teams have hosted & won Allan Cups.
Gee. Thanks, Mayor Obvious.
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Post by Senior Hockey Vet on May 5, 2014 21:13:27 GMT -5
He's right. Just looked through and not even once...not one time in 100+ years has Alberta won a Cup in Ontario wade. You would think by pure luck, they would have pulled one victory. And to top it off, the Cup at rough count has been held in Ontario over 40 times.
Next you'll be saying that the best Stampede in Canada is in Alberta.....errr, ok we'll give you that one LOL.
Stick to horses! Just having fun - don't take it so serious!
Bentley is good but not as talented. You had the same team (5 new players in Senior hockey is the SAME team). Dundas beat them soundly. Just face the facts!
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Post by wade on May 5, 2014 21:42:01 GMT -5
If your pulling stats from so far back in the span of time you've got 40 different times where Ontario held an Allan Cup...you need to step back and ask yourself how much (if any) of it is relevant to the premise your tangled in?
Certainly your not trying to use early & mid-century history to try and prove your case in a thread featuring the term "Modern Era" are you?
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Post by wade on May 5, 2014 22:04:09 GMT -5
Hulit played for Clarenville in both tournaments. He actually led them in scoring in 2013. Wade I have great respect for the Army and enjoy the people who run the organization and share a number of views on our game at this level as we try and make it better. The who is best can never be determined ever cause we can't play each other and we all know it, that said as you know I was in Red Deer last year and knew we had to beat a team like Bentley big, strong tough could skate if we wanted to win this year. The Bentley guys said the level this year was as good as they have seen and I agree, that said we can't let this thing get to good or it will eliminate others as they'll send up the white flag locally like back in the 80's when it almost became a regional event. It has been by many the Tuesday night game against Bentley way well have been the best Sr game played in the Building which opened in 1950, it was clearly the most physical I have ever seen there ( and refereed in the late 70 and early 80's when it was nuts on the ice ) . The game at this level isn't broken but can be made better and with luck the operators will prevail and make it better for all the guys who care and offer up an opinion on this board and who pay to watch us at this level . Regards Don Robertson Thanks, Don. It was no secret Dundas was keenly scouting the 2013 tournament. The Army was absolutely impressed at the end product you assembled. And your correct, it's impossible to conclude who would have won a game between teams from different years.
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Post by wade on May 5, 2014 22:11:22 GMT -5
He's right. Just looked through and not even once...not one time in 100+ years has Alberta won a Cup in Ontario wade. You would think by pure luck, they would have pulled one victory. And to top it off, the Cup at rough count has been held in Ontario over 40 times. Next you'll be saying that the best Stampede in Canada is in Alberta.....errr, ok we'll give you that one LOL. Stick to horses! Just having fun - don't take it so serious! Bentley is good but not as talented. You had the same team (5 new players in Senior hockey is the SAME team). Dundas beat them soundly. Just face the facts! Trust me, I couldn't possibly take this particular debate serious, reading some of the recent attempts to rescue your viewpoint from the dead. Your staring at results which prove the exact opposite of your belief that Ontario teams dominate MODERN ERA Tournaments which they host. And your not even trying to show me how this proves the other aspect of this...where you would be required to show how Ontario teams are deliberately avoiding putting their best efforts into tournaments NOT Hosted in Ontario.
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Post by Senior Hockey Vet on May 5, 2014 22:26:00 GMT -5
Modern era of Allan Cup Hockey League/Major League Hockey where teams try to recruit the surplus of ex-pros that live in Southern Ontario -
2008 - Brantford Blast AC champs
2014 - Dundas Real McCoys AC champs
Last two tournaments in the modern era - both won by ONT
No one in this thread said it was intentional that teams don't send their best...it is a fact that many years Ontario players have not all made the trek to the Cup.
For sure, I have watched McCoys Allan Cup games in the past where they did not have a full bench. And know for a fact some players flew in mid-week or in one case with Mark Jooris for one game only. Whereas Bentley brought 23-25 players to the Cup this year..
Yes you travel better and it's a positive for your organization.
Believe me, I wish it was different, and all players accompany their AAA team to the Cup. There are work commitments, etc.
Wade - you can't dispute it - the Army travels the best in Canada.
You also can't dispute that if the Cup was in Ontario next season, Ontario would likely be favoured. There are just so many ex-pros here, that it's much easier to build very strong teams.
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Post by wade on May 5, 2014 22:35:10 GMT -5
For those of you keeping track at home:
Mayor Ford wishes us to believe that 5 different players + a Starting Goalie equates to the "SAME TEAM" as the previous year.
In between puffs of his pipe he came up with that one.
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Post by ronaldo on May 5, 2014 23:16:38 GMT -5
wade yuo are taking a shit kicking tonite
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Post by wade on May 5, 2014 23:29:27 GMT -5
wade yuo are taking a shit kicking tonite ronrlee, If I've made an error in my technique here, it's trying to use logic to dispute something illogical. I apologize...but...it's the only way I know.
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Post by jimc on May 6, 2014 0:02:17 GMT -5
I really do not think any of today's teams would hold a candle to the Hornets, Squires or Twins of the early 80's...or the Motts Clamatos juggernaut in 87
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Post by wade on May 6, 2014 0:09:03 GMT -5
Modern era of Allan Cup Hockey League/Major League Hockey where teams try to recruit the surplus of ex-pros that live in Southern Ontario - 2008 - Brantford Blast AC champs 2014 - Dundas Real McCoys AC champs Last two tournaments in the modern era - both won by ONT No one in this thread said it was intentional that teams don't send their best...it is a fact that many years Ontario players have not all made the trek to the Cup. For sure, I have watched McCoys Allan Cup games in the past where they did not have a full bench. And know for a fact some players flew in mid-week or in one case with Mark Jooris for one game only. Whereas Bentley brought 23-25 players to the Cup this year.. Yes you travel better and it's a positive for your organization. Believe me, I wish it was different, and all players accompany their AAA team to the Cup. There are work commitments, etc. Wade - you can't dispute it - the Army travels the best in Canada. You also can't dispute that if the Cup was in Ontario next season, Ontario would likely be favoured. There are just so many ex-pros here, that it's much easier to build very strong teams. The HOST is always the favourite. Your preaching to the choir on that one. This isn't exclusive to Ontario. Not sure how your unable to grasp that. But your not limiting your opinion to just the host. Your saying something entirely different but your basing it solely on 2 teams in 2 tournaments winning (as HOSTS). -Your ignoring 2 recent Ontario tournaments where Ontario teams failed to even make the final -Your ignoring the grand total of 12 other Ontario teams (Fort Frances, Kenora 2 x's, Whitby, Brantford 2 x's, and Dundas 2 x's) essentially taking up space in the probability equation, where teams foreign to Ontario are few & far between in ALL these tournaments. And your also making a huge reach trying to tell me Bentley travels better than any other team. You honestly have zero idea what your talking about here. It's evident throughout the thread...but...hard to say exactly where your weakest/most exposed. I can tell you, every single time Ontario sees The Army, they're seeing a team which has played anywhere between 40-50-ish games. Included in the total is a playoff route which is notoriously more gruelling than any other branch in Canada. Don't you stop & think INJURIES factor in for them?! And yet you assume they "travel well"? The Gens' have went to Ontario with serious injuries. Every time. I'm not making excuses for them. I'm just pointing out how WRONG you are in your perception.
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Post by wade on May 6, 2014 0:15:17 GMT -5
I think what were reading here is some sadly ill informed people.
You have made a very over the top claim based on something you discovered in 2 Ontario tournaments.
You should be looking at a broader spectrum & realize that ALL TEAMS produce better teams when hosting.
I didn't need you to point this out to me.
Sorry I know you were trying for something much more profound but that's really all you've got.
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