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Post by Blastfan11 on May 6, 2014 7:41:59 GMT -5
Wade you are fighting a losing battle. You just go on and on, and generally do not make sense. First off, Kenora is not part of the Ontario Allan Cup Hockey League. Yes, they are in Ontario and hosted in 2011...but come on you're not thinking straight. Bentley is actually closer to Kenora than Dundas/Brantford is - by at least 3 hours, for God sakes. If you're going to make an argument, think before you post.
Secondly, injuries have absolutely nothing to do with how your team travels. If they weren't injured, would they travel - that is the criteria.
Lastly, I agree with everyone on here about Ontario teams not travelling well. I just need to go back to last year. Brantford won the ACH championship but had to travel to Kenora for the Ontario rights (should not ever happen - not fair to play 40 games and then play 2 out of 3 against a team who has no league). Many players, including our best player Joel Prpic did not make the trek. The Blast, who dominated all year in my opinion were a better team than the 2008 team that won the Cup.
It's too bad and should be a prequisite that you'll commit to travelling to the Allan Cup before you sign a card. But it's just how it is.
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Post by Miffer on May 6, 2014 10:38:17 GMT -5
What it all boils down to is it takes a GREAT team to will the AC on the road.IMO
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Post by Miffer on May 6, 2014 10:42:31 GMT -5
WIN!!!!!
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Post by wade on May 6, 2014 10:50:38 GMT -5
I'm sorry blastfan11. I assumed by pointing out "injuries" all readers would be able to make the connection that these are players who DID NOT TRAVEL.
Thing is...I shouldn't need to debate this point at all. You guys should be able to ascertain for yourselves that every amateur team faces the same problem when it comes time to travel to the tournaments.
And if you happen to find examples of the Generals being guilty of perfect attendance...you should also be able to detect the biggest reason they've accomplished this is that they have attended more Allan Cups than anyone else...so...naturally there are examples you can site.
But be objective. Especially if your not informed.
As for including all of Ontario...a couple posters went mining for all time archives and used Port Arthur/Thunder Bay/Kingston trying to persuade their agenda...but...they're also filtering the information. Egregiously.
Just since 2001...a very reasonable & modernized sample size...Southern Ontario has hosted 4 Allan Cups. They've won 2 & appeared in a Final 1 other time but lost. 7-2!
This alone ought to be enough for you guys to just stop the madness.
But somehow...I'm having to point out obvious things like the fact most Allan Cups are week long events requiring almost ALL travelling teams to fly.
And even though there are 13.6 million people in the GTA (pointed out many times) somehow this glut of people produces hockey players who are genetically less "travel friendly" than any other area of Canada.
And were being asked to believe this...based on a handful of examples of players from 2 ACH teams who were absent from tourney/playoff games.
But were also being duped into not even considering or second guessing the notion this has never/doesn't happen to anyone else when tournaments are in Ontario and the suitcase is on the other foot.
There is one person (me) on this forum who can (and for some reason still does) debunk this bullshit with actual examples proving how silly it all is. Even though it all sounds so silly and arrogant. Even though the year by year results are the exact opposite of what Ontarios' Mayor is claiming...
Ontario hosts and wins Allan Cups at a 50% mark since 2001. One of the 2 wins...came in double OT. The other was a 3-1 win in which the winner was outshot. This is normal & consistent with any other area in Canada.
Your teams simply do not emerge as grossly superior powerhouses with any significant difference in the amount of former pros or former NHLers than anywhere else, folks.
All you have really proven is your own arrogance for thinking otherwise. And to stick to it so stubbornly & blindly...is madness
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Post by Ty on May 6, 2014 11:10:58 GMT -5
the HOST team is pretty much always one of the favorites, with a few exceptions.. The thing I don't understand is why southern Ontario doesn't travel well?
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Post by Ty on May 6, 2014 11:24:56 GMT -5
miffer is right it takes a great team to win on the road!!! Host teams should be in the final they have a couple years to build a team
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Post by wade on May 6, 2014 11:33:36 GMT -5
the HOST team is pretty much always one of the favorites, with a few exceptions.. The thing I don't understand is why southern Ontario doesn't travel well? It's a bogus claim. They used 24 players in Steinbach but got absolutely crushed by Theo Fleury and his stacked HOST team, 8-4 in the quarters. This tournament was...what....a 4 hour flight from GTA? At the most. They used 19 different players the next year in FSJ. Including Dan Turple (look him up, he was the best goalie in FSJ) but they got clipped in the semis' by an injury riddled Gens' team who were impersonating forwards as defencemen (one of Suttsy's' go-to screw ups in big games). Dundas (who doesn't travel well) was able to fly Jooris in from Germany for this game. I believe Nick Smith was out for the season with a hip injury...so...Jooris rolled into town to play almost exclusive minutes on the PP. It didn't matter. They were a great team with plenty of former Pros. They got beat by a team who had bussed the 12 hours up to FSJ.
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Post by wade on May 6, 2014 11:49:27 GMT -5
In 2008...playing a tourney right in their wheelhouse...just a quick commute from Dundas...The McCoys actually had 2 players flying from Calgary. Even though they have 13.5 million people in the GTA. They were a very good team that year...but...not drastically better than any other season in team history.
In all actuality...Dundas...like a lot of SR teams are sometimes guilty of an infatuation with NHL ALUMNI. They had Todd Harvey & Todd Hlushko playing. They had Rick Vaive as well. These guys were decent but not dominant. Harvey might not even make a passing grade in 08'.
Thing is...when you sign a player who has been retired from the NHL for several years...like Matt Barnaby...your not getting a superstar. Your sometimes getting a guy who is beat up & miled out. Other times...you get a gem. Its a gamble. Not a garauntee.
Dundas is always decent. They were more than decent this spring. Just what I keep saying...the year they hosted...they built their best team...but...they were aged in comparison to the previous years winner. It worked out for them. Maybe because they rested the big, star names for most of league playoffs. Maybe because these guys were simply dialled in & playing great. I watched the Final. The best forward in the game was Ryan Chrisite. He's been a McCoy for several years already.
And I guess some of their fans want people to bow at their feet and admit that if Dundas hosted every year...they would fill the win column. And that's pretty much the same thing for anywhere else in Canada...if you actually realize there is a Canada beyond the GTA.
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Post by Ty on May 6, 2014 12:00:20 GMT -5
This is a short tourney when a team/players get hot or on a roll they can look like the beat team ever. Brantford beat them a couple times this year in there playoffs so where would they rank? I think that is a very good team that got hot at the right time and won the cup.. Most of these guys from the gta are probaly leaf fans so I would take what they say with a grain of salt
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dexterbaggs@hotmail.com
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Post by dexterbaggs@hotmail.com on May 6, 2014 17:36:22 GMT -5
Guys I guess that I will see you all in Clarenville next year , or will the teams all back out because of the travel ,, do hope to see Generals there they have good teams most of the time .. By the way I think that if not for the rink size it would have came down to the Generals and the Bous ....Both teams did have better speed and much faster D men ... Bigger ice would have made the difference JMO
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Post by ac on May 6, 2014 18:06:45 GMT -5
Guys I guess that I will see you all in Clarenville next year , or will the teams all back out because of the travel ,, do hope to see Generals there they have good teams most of the time .. By the way I think that if not for the rink size it would have came down to the Generals and the Bous ....Both teams did have better speed and much faster D men ... Bigger ice would have made the difference JMO Dexter love the discussion. But come one the Generals were faster??? Were you at any games. Everyone in the arena could see that the Gens didn't have the speed. I even spoke to 3 or 4 people in Generals jackets who were associated with the team. To a man, the concensus was that Bentley was not fleet of foot. They generally win with toughness. Donnie R even mentioned that he had never seen as much hitting at any game in Dundas since the 50s. The Gens tried to intimidate. It was a terrific game...but again come on, the Gens were likely the slowest of the 6 teams. Honestly, you should have seen the speed of Kenora and South East as well.
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Post by mlh01 on May 6, 2014 18:13:13 GMT -5
You beat me to it. The Generals plodded with the puck. It was strange. It would look like they would have an odd-man rush and the player would hang onto the puck so long it turned into a 3 on 3 or 4 on 4.
Speed was not a word I'd associate with the Generals. Only team they may have been faster than was Brantford who frankly did not show up. The Blast didn't look like the same team from the regular season.
PS all joking aside, if HC doesn't step up you may see the smallest amount of AAA teams ever in Canada as the travel costs to Nfld are enormous.
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Post by wade on May 6, 2014 18:13:18 GMT -5
Connor Shields would've been one of the fastest guys in the tournament. He was the player Dundas took out with "the hit" in game 1.
Bentley's "D"...when on top of their game...is also quick & agile.
Unfortunately, Donny Morrison, a player long reputed as one of the best skating & best all around defencemen in SR AAA spent all of March out with an injury & his first game back was versus Dundas. A tough situation to get back into the line-up.
I think there is more speed in Bentleys line up than what they showed in Dundas.
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Post by ronaldo on May 6, 2014 23:28:21 GMT -5
get over the size of the dundas rink dundas won the rest of you lost
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dexterbaggs@hotmail.com
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Post by dexterbaggs@hotmail.com on May 7, 2014 10:33:09 GMT -5
get over the size of the dundas rink dundas won the rest of you lost Did not say that Dundas didn`t deserve to win also do you not think that the size of the rink didn`t help them .. helped them big time their defence were slower that both the Bous and Generals .. By the way they did have a good ex nhl team there .. All kidding aside it was great hockey at the Allan cup and I enjoyed all of the games that I went to (missed 2).. Still say the Bous was the faster team there
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