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Post by wade on Jul 26, 2019 16:19:01 GMT -5
There are two things that have been killing Senior AAA hockey for years (about 70 years or so), the advent of the NHL on television and Senior AA/A hockey. In the pre-television era all you had was radio broadcasts of games. The senior AAA games were live entertainment, they were that towns' Toronto Maple Leafs or Montreal Canadiens. Foster Hewitt was the main way that most people got their exposure to the NHL. Teams that haven't been in committed Senior AAA league have had their players playing on Senior AA/A team to get to play the game. The Kelowna Sparta are a good example of this from a few seasons ago. They had to back out of playing in the BC/Alberta qualifier because many of their players were tied up with the Coy Cup (the BC AA championship tournament) on the same weekend that the Allan Cup qualifier was being held, and the dates for the Coy Cup were announced well in advance. It seems like the same things keep getting done over and over again with teams popping up and dying after a few (if even that many) seasons. It is time to start thinking outside of the box (or even rely on what worked in the past). Universities and junior teams would seemingly have enough alumnus that a team could potentially be put together. How about allowing the military bases being allowed to form teams and try to qualify for the Allan Cup. Remember, Milt Schmidt won the Allan Cup with the Ottawa RCAF while serving in the military during World War II. Or have some of the leagues that play at the lower levels of senior hockey put teams together that could compete for the Allan Cup or have a team made up of teams from around a larger community and have the qualifying dates for Senior AAA announced ahead of time and have the league and provincial playoffs not conflict with the Senior AAA playoffs. I don't know anymore. As i have posted on this forum many times, I have never liked the idea of teams that are put together on the spot just to challenge for the Allan out of convenience. I feel it is a complete slap in the face to the teams that battle it out in a league all winter only to emerge to play a fully assembled squad out of who knows where that is full of mercenaries that is fresh with no knocks or niggles. I fully understand the humble beginnings of the Allan Cup and that the basis was that it was indeed a "challenge cup". With that being said...if teams are dying in the only AAA leagues left...the above is a moot point. Exactly. We’ve had 100’s of threads like this one. I’ve written thousands of words & 1000’s of posts. Nowadays...I just don’t think there is a workable solution. There is truth in the point SOTB made regarding how large cultural shifts have had a real affect on the health of SR hockey. Changes in lifestyles, media, economy and on & on...all add up to the fact that Allan Cup was a “small town concept” when small town living was vibrant & realistic. It’s not this way anymore and the Allan Cup concept is outdated & impractical.
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Post by wade on Jul 24, 2019 21:40:24 GMT -5
but I thought that league was the be all and end all of Sr hockey?? I haven’t said anything along those lines for a few years now. In fact, nobody has been more pessimistic about SR AAA...anywhere...Be it the ACHW or anywhere else...than this guy. And if you think the Ontario League isn’t a year or two away from being in the same boat...think again. Bottom Line has been the same for a few years now...-and I’m the one telling you...- This thing is DEAD. DONE. KAPUT. Start fresh with an entirely new concept & brand.
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Post by wade on Jul 16, 2019 13:15:27 GMT -5
um...ya...sure the 'embarrassing shortage of teams they are helping to be responsible for. Not buying that load.[/quote For several years (even decades) PRIOR TO the Bentley Generals registering for SR AAA, Alberta didn’t have more than TWO SR AAA teams. In fact, for most of the 90’s, interest in SR AAA was virtually non-existant. So thin that Stony Plain played a year of exhibition games against ACAC college teams just so they could keep their AAA focus alive. It was only when the Bentley/Stony rivalry began to catch fire that any sustained legitimacy took shape in Alberta. Around the same time the 1-2 teams in BC continued to barely hang on and (unfortunately) NEVER built a league or even a perennial rivalry anywhere. Same thing for SK & MB. The Gens’ played an undeniable & instrumental role in helping restore passion, competition & appreciation for SR AAA. As they got stronger...yes...it got much tougher to compete with them. But I said it...time & time again....SR AAA needed leadership in order to keep going. For 15 years...we had a crown jewel franchise and never got to a point where we could ever distinguish any direction or governance from Hockey Canada. The teams that folded...aren’t the fault of the Gens. And the teams that never happened in the first place aren’t the fault of The Army either. So, whose fault is it? I personally don’t see how ANYONE can exclusively have blame laid at the feet. From day one...SR AAA was a difficult patient to operate on & although we often discussed different solutions to different problems....*NOBODY*...ever TRULY came up with something that WORKED. Ohhhh sure...we had ideas. We had experiments. But I still say...the wheels never turned fast enough to keep up with increasing costs & challenges. Often times, the wheels never turned at all or when they did turn...we had nobody steering the machine. Directionless. In fact. And hypothetically...had the Bentley Generals folded...say...5...or...10 years ago...Allan Cup would have died an even faster death than it has.
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Post by wade on Jun 27, 2019 23:52:51 GMT -5
Actually, that’s a brain storm that does have some merit & potential. I was actually semi serious. Only slightly buzzed when I suggested it. The hockey has gotten a lot better and it’s not under HC. Be cool to see LNAH East and West Div. With maybe one or two out of division games. Just throwing it out there. To start, I DO think looking at the LNAH model & considering how to create a Western Canadian version of that league has merit. The Allan Cup, in its essence, can’t survive in the modern era. But...it CAN springboard something.
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Post by wade on Jun 27, 2019 17:59:41 GMT -5
Let’s just expand the LNAH nationally and call it quits. Haha Actually, that’s a brain storm that does have some merit & potential.
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Post by wade on Jun 22, 2019 17:12:43 GMT -5
If Hockey Canada have no interest...they then do not provide any value. Maybe it is time for Senior AAA hockey to break away-become an "outlaw" organization? Is this even a possibility? It’s somewhat possible. But as soon as you start looking into insurance costs it gets instantly tough to move out from under Hockey Canada’s umbrella. The outlaw league in Southern Ontario operates within a large & established athletic commission. To find an entity similar to that...but...with an inter-provincial capacity would be very tough.
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Post by wade on Jun 21, 2019 22:20:51 GMT -5
whatever became of the mighty generals? This is most certainly a black eye that will tarnish their 'legacy' I thought ACHW was the be all and end all league for Sr Hockey? They didn’t fold the team. The chose not to continue to compete due to an obvious & embarrassing shortage of teams both in Alberta & across Canada.
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Post by wade on Jun 1, 2019 10:29:33 GMT -5
I don’t get the sense The Army were very happy about the decision to continue with a tournament format, after Rosetown 2018.
They led the charge from the AB branch, pushing to at least TRY a series format. Word is, they were 100% WILLING to pass up the chance to HOST a tournament in 2019.
But...ultimately...another 2 years of piecing together this tournaments with barely any REAL interest at all.
I’d say a lot of the things I’ve said before...but...I’ve said it all so often....
I definitely support The Army when they say...”There is no point in carrying this thing any further.”
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Post by wade on May 29, 2019 9:03:55 GMT -5
The Army tried - and ultimately failed- to create a fully united front when attempting to initiate a new level of communication with Hockey Canada & Hockey Alberta.
The Gens figured out long ago, they can’t be an exclusive voice (nor should they be). The only way Senior hockey operators will be heard is if they’re ALL TOGETHER voicing the SAME MESSAGE.
And you can see & read in the fallout of the Gens announcement...Thai’s not happening.
Jeff McInnis and his team have key points they want addressed.
Brian Sutters’ team doesn’t want to agree with those points. Instead, they’re crying foul. Continuing to accuse the Gens of paying $1000/Game for a goalie. (They’ve made the exact same accusation in the past regarding Andrew Penner in 2013 when THAT “$1000 goalie” played ONE GAME.)
This infighting has gone on and on and on...and it has undermined productive action. More than that...it crushes all hope of mature, honest & realistic evolution.
The Innisfail Eagles have money. Lots of it. Not because they don’t pay players. But because they’ve never, ever once had To pay for an Inter-Provincial trip. Anywhere. The Gens’ (miraculously) have $$$ to continue to play. The 2019 Allan Cup was a Grand Slam...as Allan’s are measured.
But the Gens’ can’t pump that money into a DEAD HORSE. It’s just not responsible operating procedure/investment to carry on when the Allan Cup isn’t being maintained properly.
This discussion...has been a dead end road for a loooong time now.
It’s a big reason why this forum doesn’t get the traffic it used to.
Most people are tired of reading tall tales about “$1000 goalies”.
I won’t bother carrying on and on...I stopped doing that a few years ago....haha...It doesn’t do anything.
But the all time best SR AAA team in Canada has now announced the entire Allan Cup is a broken mess which they no longer want to be apart of at a time when they’ve REALLY never been healthier.
But ya...let’s listen to Brian Sutter talk about how to run a senior hockey team.
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Post by wade on May 28, 2019 13:16:20 GMT -5
Pretty clear where the problem starts when you’ve got teams cheering the loss of other teams.
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Post by wade on May 17, 2019 20:56:35 GMT -5
A couple possible names were dropped when I spoke briefly to a few people during Allan Cup week. Neither of the two are actually existing SR teams, rather parties interested in creating teams to play in the ACHW.
In Alberta, teams must play at the “AA” level for a year prior to registering “AAA”. Therefore, it’s looking like 3 SR “AAA” teams, at the most, for next season.
When we were still known as the Chinook League, there were many seasons where a double-tiered league worked amicably. But...I’m skeptical about this still being any kind of solution...as The Gens’ are frankly too much to handle for “AA” teams in Alberta these days.
Makes me wonder if maybe the 4 time Allan Cup Champs’ have essentially reached “End Game” as the biggest powerhouse the tournament era has ever seen?
There is almost NOBODY within about 3 1/2 Provinces willing to make a serious effort to keep pace with them.
I think this moment has been on the horizon for awhile and I’ve been saying for over a year now...Allan Cup isn’t really “alive” anymore.
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Post by wade on Apr 14, 2019 18:07:36 GMT -5
In the tournament era, Jim. I’m talking anything past 1992 til now.
The Army has almost 40 Allan Cup Tournament Wins.
If you combine ALL the tournament wins of ALL the existing SR AAA teams and maybe even add a couple recently folded franchises...you might get to 30.
It’s astounding what they’ve done and they’ve NEVER ONCE attended an Allan Cup via acclimation. They’ve won their way into 18 tournaments and they’ve got a tournament win percentage better than most teams carry in league play.
And here is the kicker...they’re not done!!!!
If there was any brains worth picking in this forum...I would run a poll...today...and ask who the FAVOURITE for Allan Cup 2020 is...right now...and the correct answer would be The Army.
But of course....there is no point in doing something like that here because we’re down to what....4...5-Ish people posting and 3 of them are still trying to figure out how the best SR AAA team Southern Ontario has ever sent on the road just got their asses handed to them by Alberta’s Official Bridesmaids of March.
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Post by wade on Apr 10, 2019 11:08:11 GMT -5
I’ve been busy with work & my Sons’ hockey all winter. Last nite was my first Gens’ game in over a year, so, I’m out-of-the-loop this time around.
It was very clear, walking around the facility last nite...The Gens organization, the tournament committee along with The City of Lacombe have covered every angle and are production another gold standard tournament. Nobody else has ever come close to what this hockey club has done.
I don’t know who the other faces would be on Allan Cups’ “Rushmore”...but...The Army is the Abraham Lincoln. Second to none.
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Post by wade on Jan 4, 2019 16:03:20 GMT -5
Very true Jim. Sad...i have not even watched a game this season. If it makes you feel any better, I haven’t watched any games either.
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Post by wade on Oct 20, 2018 17:33:59 GMT -5
Seems to me, the more logical explanation is the SC owner wants to host the AC, and currently lacks a suitable rink, or fanbase, with which to do it. Could be HIS motivation behind what is certainly a sketchy enterprise. But I also more-than-half-expect the league will motion to allow it to stand because, as has been mentioned, as the league stares down the barrel of FAILED EXPANSION....they can’t afford to be picky.
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